Bill Piche Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 On 9/27/2024 at 8:06 AM, insane.warrior said: Yeah, but all of the above is not direct evidence of cheating. This, however, is a concrete proof What am I missing in the picture? What exactly is the direct proof? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Bill Piche said: What am I missing in the picture? What exactly is the direct proof? He closes the gripper, the 4th, which in reality cannot have gaps between the spring coils. Edited October 1 by insane.warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 1 hour ago, insane.warrior said: He closes the gripper, the 4th, which in reality cannot have gaps between the spring coils. The Silarukov gripper cannot have gaps? Is that what you mean? I see that he used his index to block the spring, but don’t really see gaps anyway. You’re saying he swapped the spring to an inferior one that had gaps? What is the proof that actually invalidated his cert? Does anyone actually know? I’ve heard murmurs about someone using pixel counting to support an allegation of swapped springs. I feel that could be supporting evidence of a larger claim, but surely cannot be the only evidence. Or, I’m misunderstanding how compelling pixel counting should be. I’ve seen that TikTok guy verify people’s true height and it always feels a little contrived to me; like he’s claiming accuracy that the method doesn’t offer. Most people without a machinist background will mess up using calipers to measure a spring accurately. IronMind has removed or withheld other certifications strictly over what they felt was unsportsmanlike conduct. Is that possibly all that happened here? Sorry, all I have is questions 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weightlifter Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Why don't you ask Ironmind about reasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cannon said: The Silarukov gripper cannot have gaps? Is that what you mean? I see that he used his index to block the spring, but don’t really see gaps anyway. You’re saying he swapped the spring to an inferior one that had gaps? Yes, the silarukov 150 gripper cannot have gaps. Here is what we expect to see: And here is what volegov demonstrated and claimed to be "silarukov 150" (pay attention to the light between the coils): Edited October 1 by insane.warrior 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane.warrior Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 (edited) Guys, maybe someone has an unpacked CoC 3.5 or CoC 4, can you compare it to the ones in the volegov's "cert" videos? Those videos are still available on Ironmind's youtube channel. We are looking for a second layer of sealing package over the original Ironmind sealing. Edited October 1 by insane.warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 3 hours ago, Cannon said: The Silarukov gripper cannot have gaps? Is that what you mean? I see that he used his index to block the spring, but don’t really see gaps anyway. You’re saying he swapped the spring to an inferior one that had gaps? What is the proof that actually invalidated his cert? Does anyone actually know? I’ve heard murmurs about someone using pixel counting to support an allegation of swapped springs. I feel that could be supporting evidence of a larger claim, but surely cannot be the only evidence. Or, I’m misunderstanding how compelling pixel counting should be. I’ve seen that TikTok guy verify people’s true height and it always feels a little contrived to me; like he’s claiming accuracy that the method doesn’t offer. Most people without a machinist background will mess up using calipers to measure a spring accurately. IronMind has removed or withheld other certifications strictly over what they felt was unsportsmanlike conduct. Is that possibly all that happened here? Sorry, all I have is questions I have seen actual screenshots of some of the pixel counting being done using software on his videos. It honestly looks like a very accurate method for tracking spread in people's videos to the best of anyone's ability, and I was impressed by it From what I have heard the people who outed him to Ironmind as fraudulent were from Russia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 (edited) I'm amazed at the amount of effort he put into hiding the spring at every point in the coc 4 cert video. When pointing out the 4 logo on the package he hides the spring with the back of his hand, and his finger between the handles to point where we should read on the package (lol) When the gripper is out of the package, he holds it pronated (palm down) to continue covering the spring with his palm; it is more visible here, but the light is very obstructed from clearly illuminating the spring now The person filming the video films at such an angle that it would seem as if Dmitry specifically told them to stay at low enough of an angle to allow his thumb to remain obstructing the view of the spring After the close is finished, he immediately supinates his forearm as much as possible to bring the spring out of view In the last screenshot after he lets the handle snap open, you can see his fingers wrap around the back handle, which seems like another technique to get the view of the spring obstructed via the fingers (if the handles were slowly opened, the spring would become visible) Maybe this is the answer to his reason for snapping the handles open that people here were wondering about This entire video is like an audition for the spring hiding olympics...in my 3+ years of gripping I've seen a ton of gripper videos, the only other major person I've seen handle grippers in such a non-natural deceptive way was tiziano There are so many actual strong people at grippers out there, that you can watch videos of, and nobody handles the grippers in weird deceptive ways like this Edited October 1 by C8Myotome 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Blackwell Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 The first Pic. Just looks crazy suspicious. I thought that the first time I saw the video.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 4 hours ago, weightlifter said: Why don't you ask Ironmind about reasons? Well, I guess because I don’t care. I was posing the questions here more as a matter of moderating the thread. People seem to be celebrating “GOT HIM!” and “I KNEW IT!” But, got him doing what? Knew he did what? I’m just not seeing actual details about what happened here. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Looking back in the thread a little there are a few people posing the question, “So what actually happened?” I think the clarification is just, at this time, we simply don’t know. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtwpg Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 Question about these Silarukov: Do they otherwise look normal? Basically I am wondering if someone could take the real thing, wedge something into the spring, and permanently spread it so the coils don't support each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 41 minutes ago, kurtwpg said: Basically I am wondering if someone could take the real thing, wedge something into the spring, and permanently spread it so the coils don't support each other. No. Maybe with a hydraulic press and a custom wedge fixture you could bend the metal enough to add a gap. It would be next to impossible with hand tools. And adding gaps to the spring wouldn’t make it weaker anyway. This is strictly a cosmetic issue that doesn’t really matter in functional terms. The gaps are there from when the spring is wound and that’s why if there are gaps on a spring that shouldn’t have them, it’s a good indication it was switched. I will say that seeing daylight through a coil at the perfect vantage isn’t really “gaps.” I’m skeptical that no Silarukov grippers have any daylight gaps. However, to me, that spring has a poorly polished look that I associate with Baraban and not Silarukov. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liftyzig Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 To me it looks like what i assume a spring that has been "stomped" might look like, but I have no experience in that practice. Spring finish appears very similar to my Silarukov 150 I just acquired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Blackwell Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 How long did it take Tiziano to be exposed on his cert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted October 6 Share Posted October 6 10 minutes ago, Luke Blackwell said: How long did it take Tiziano to be exposed on his cert? We knew immediately in our hearts. Due process and fighting against his appeals that he was the victim took longer. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 12 hours ago, Luke Blackwell said: How long did it take Tiziano to be exposed on his cert? I wonder if Tiz would’ve gotten away with his 3.5 cert if he hadn’t gotten greedy and started faking all kinds of lifts. It got ridiculous toward the end when he even started to change his scale from kg to lbs. The amount of ludicrous lifts and suspicious behavior became overwhelming toward the end. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 14 hours ago, Luke Blackwell said: How long did it take Tiziano to be exposed on his cert? Way too long considering most people knew he was cheating. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce1337 Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 19 hours ago, Fist of Fury said: Way too long considering most people knew he was cheating. I had to bide my time to gather enough evidence. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fist of Fury Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 2 hours ago, bruce1337 said: I had to bide my time to gather enough evidence. Yes it was really good of you to actually take the time and really look for evidence. I actually think the main reason it took so long time was because people didn't care. Everyone knew he was cheating, you kind of lose interest when you know that. I can only speak for myself but I didn't watch any of his videos after he certed the GHP8 and #3.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matek Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 On 10/7/2024 at 6:50 AM, Luke Blackwell said: How long did it take Tiziano to be exposed on his cert? And as others said, he became extremely greedy. This is from his #3.5 cert: 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 3 hours ago, bruce1337 said: I had to bide my time to gather enough evidence. That was a very wise strategy. Because one or two suspicious lifts could be explained away. But 50 suspicious lifts will be harder (impossible) to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Blackwell Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 1 hour ago, matek said: And as others said, he became extremely greedy. This is from his #3.5 cert: I guess certing by itself isn't good enough anymore. You have to be a renowned superhuman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_wigren Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 31 minutes ago, Luke Blackwell said: I guess certing by itself isn't good enough anymore. You have to be a renowned superhuman Ever since Ironmind started accepting internet certs with no referees, the cert itself has become very easy to fake. Before covid Ironmind would require an impartial witness present for the close. The witness would be selected by Ironmind themselves. Ironmind would send the gripper or nail directly to the witness. The witness and the athlete would then set up a date where they would meet and do the cert. the gripper would be in the possession of the witness the whole time all up to and including the close. In a system like this it would be VERY hard to cheat. Probably not impossible. But assuming you’re not a skilled magician, you would likely get caught if you were to try and switch the gripper in front of the witness. These days you’re just sent a gripper by mail and you have all the time in the world to open the package, switch the gripper and then seal it back together. Then just “open” the package on video and close the fake gripper on video and voila, you’re certified. From a logistic standpoint I can understand why Ironmind decided to move away from the old system. It’s just so much work for each cert. We should really be thankful to them for keeping it up as long as they did. But IMO the Ironmind certs “died” when they started accepting internet certs. Now the Ironmind certs are just like any other internet list, mostly just for fun, shits and giggles. I just wish they would still maintain the same standard as before for the elite certs i.e. the 3.5 and the 4. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C8Myotome Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 (edited) 27 minutes ago, David_wigren said: Ever since Ironmind started accepting internet certs with no referees, the cert itself has become very easy to fake. Before covid Ironmind would require an impartial witness present for the close. The witness would be selected by Ironmind themselves. Ironmind would send the gripper or nail directly to the witness. The witness and the athlete would then set up a date where they would meet and do the cert. the gripper would be in the possession of the witness the whole time all up to and including the close. In a system like this it would be VERY hard to cheat. Probably not impossible. But assuming you’re not a skilled magician, you would likely get caught if you were to try and switch the gripper in front of the witness. These days you’re just sent a gripper by mail and you have all the time in the world to open the package, switch the gripper and then seal it back together. Then just “open” the package on video and close the fake gripper on video and voila, you’re certified. From a logistic standpoint I can understand why Ironmind decided to move away from the old system. It’s just so much work for each cert. We should really be thankful to them for keeping it up as long as they did. But IMO the Ironmind certs “died” when they started accepting internet certs. Now the Ironmind certs are just like any other internet list, mostly just for fun, shits and giggles. I just wish they would still maintain the same standard as before for the elite certs i.e. the 3.5 and the 4. The cert is now who can close a counterfeit gripper the most convincingly The fact no rule changes were made after Tiziano scammed everyone shows the rules don't really matter, and are open to being scammed in the same/similar ways again The fact no public statements were made to give an explanation on their end and discourage copycats, only encouraged would-be scammers after seeing how easy it was to fake certs. And now we are here. Edited October 8 by C8Myotome 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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