Dmitry Volegov Certifies on the Captains of Crush No. 4 Gripper

[Griparn]

I did not think this was possible to happen after the italian guy faking it. 

Ironmind lost even more credibility now. 
 

They seem to be missing a big dose of critical thinking. 

 

 

 

 

[weightlifter]

 

[Blacksmith513]

4 hours ago, Griparn said:

I did not think this was possible to happen after the italian guy faking it. 

Ironmind lost even more credibility now. 
 

They seem to be missing a big dose of critical thinking. 

 

 

 

 

It's all about the sales for Ironmind, whether this dude closed a 4 or not, I can't say. But people outside of the grip board reading that this dude closed a 4 has to boost sales for them.  Certing is all they have at this point. Its all about the sales.

[Jared P]

22 hours ago, weightlifter said:

I have written before that you should divide by 0.445 coeff aprox. when transform SGR into RGC CPW. Beleive me, that RGC can be different also. For Cannon measurements coeff above fits the best.

Point of applying forces for RGC is also 1/2 inch. And width of strap for SGR measurements is 1 inch. If you compare RGC measurements from different devices - you will be wondered but results will be vary. Measurements in any system make sence only if you rate grippers in one certain device. You cannot think that RGC rate on CPW device will match with RGC rate on someone else device. So, for CPW device translation coeff from CPW lbs to SGR kilos is closer to 0.445 (by empirical comparing). I watched a lot of videos with RGC/SGR measurements in Russian Community on YouTube. Rates inside RGC and even inside SGR but on different devices sometimes don't match.
Of course, if you will continue to think that RGC = SGR/0.95 is an accurate formula and that formula works regardless of who measured gripper rate, those "radflags" will always appear when someone will close gripper with SGR label and you will compare it with CPW rate by formula above

Understand now? why using RGC = SGR/.95 is not a magic formula?

While on the topic of gripper ratings, there are no magic formulas for the conversion - neither 0.445 nor 0.95. Both are flawed, and particular to specific rating devices.

As an example, here is Nikita Yurkovets' CCS PR of a CoC 4 rated 82 kg SGR/CXP.



82 / 0.445 = 184 lbs RGC
There are almost certainly no CoC 4s in existence with a CPW rating of 184, unless they are a mishap.

82 / 0.95 = 86.32 kg (190 lbs RGC)
190 is still an extreme outlier for a CoC 4, almost a point of concern, but much more realistic than 184.

Both conversion methods have their flaws, and there isn't really a way to accurately convert SGR/CXP to RGC using a set formula. You will get different results depending on who performed the initial SGR rating, whether it was Vadim, Nikita, or anyone else.

I chose to use 0.95 for the Heaviest closes list simply to keep it consistent. All ratings should be taken with a grain of salt in my opinion.

[DoctorOfCrush]

I can tell you that I have 10 grippers rated via the Russian method and by CPW. If I convert the Russian ratings to pounds, they are anywhere from 87-95% of the CPW rating, with most of them falling in the 91-93% range.  So actually going the other way. 
 

But that doesn’t make sense here because that would be beyond low for a 4. It would be essentially be a hard 3. 

Edited July 20 by DoctorOfCrush

[ewgnoah]

He could also just CCS a #4 out of the package with measurements before and after...

 

But seems like he'd rather waste everyone's time

[David_wigren]

3 hours ago, ewgnoah said:

He could also just CCS a #4 out of the package with measurements before and after...

 

But seems like he'd rather waste everyone's time

Nah. Credible witness is the only way.
 

 

 

[bruce1337]

8 hours ago, ewgnoah said:

He could also just CCS a #4 out of the package with measurements before and after...

 

But seems like he'd rather waste everyone's time

Credible witness trumps any video of a supposed close. Either you visit them or they visit you, you close their gripper, they confirm it on video. You only need to do it once to legitimize all you claims.

[kurtwpg]

3 hours ago, bruce1337 said:

Credible witness trumps any video of a supposed close. Either you visit them or they visit you, you close their gripper, they confirm it on video. You only need to do it once to legitimize all you claims.

Problem is, it's Russia. I don't think he can get a credible witness. I don't think in the current environment he could just easily meet up with Yurkovets, for example. I'm willing to give him some credit for essentially doing exactly what the grip community has asked of him in terms of measurement. So I'm pretty on the fence with him at this point, until we see more evidence in one direction or the other. 

[dubyagrip]

Apparently, there is some grip event happening in August and Dmitry will be participating with others.  I don't know any of the details, but unless there is a well-known member of the community there, I don't expect this to sway anyone's opinion.

[Ivan Cuk]

6 minutes ago, kurtwpg said:

Problem is, it's Russia. I don't think he can get a credible witness. I don't think in the current environment he could just easily meet up with Yurkovets, for example. I'm willing to give him some credit for essentially doing exactly what the grip community has asked of him in terms of measurement. So I'm pretty on the fence with him at this point, until we see more evidence in one direction or the other. 

He has allegedly agreed to meet with Nikita Yurkovets on August 12 to prove himself. Now if it was me personally, based of his claim of closing a ghp 9 like a sponge "without chalk or warmup right before going to bed". I would simply show up unannounced with a ghp 9 and ask him to close it on the spot . I was criticized by some russian gripsters (not gonna name them but you can infer) that I didn't properly show proof for Carl when I went to train with him. Yeah you read that right, rub your eyes and reread it wont change, because he didn't close his ghp 10 or ccs his 220 4 in front of me that means he is a "fraud"  . They equate this with Dimitry shockingly... not understanding that one is claiming to close it without warming up and does it seemingly easy like its not even 85% of his 1rm. The other trained 7 years to accomplish both certs and cannot just replicate it on any given day. Just some neat context in terms of who are we discussing about)  

[Londonjoseph]

12 hours ago, David_wigren said:

Nah. Credible witness is the only way.
 

 

 

But what if him and the witness are in cahoots together? After all, a whole venue for King Kong cheated.....

[David_wigren]

52 minutes ago, Londonjoseph said:

But what if him and the witness are in cahoots together? After all, a whole venue for King Kong cheated.....

Yeah, that is a BIG problem which has ruined the credibility of everyone involved in that incident. But I do know a few Russians personally whom I would regard very trustworthy. They do in fact exist over there.

With that said. I would assume that any serious athlete would meet up with many different people at several different occasions over a period of time. This is why I trust someone like Carl M. He has performed extremely well together with many different people in many different venues over a large period of time. And though his single certification video would not suffice as evidence if it were to stand on its own. But it doesn’t need to stand on its own. He has a large number of extremely impressive performances which have been done in legitimate settings which are equally as impressive as his CCS 4 close. Therefore I can confidently accept his CCS 4 close as legitimate, even if the video itself wasn’t the best. Though I would’ve preferred it to have been done in a grander setting. It is IMO the best gripper cert in history. All previous 4 certs were either faked or done with a deep set. And it’s a shame that the greatest gripper cert of all time was done on video like that. Ironmind should’ve shown it more respect and asked Carl to do it at an event or similar. 
 

 

[Alawadhi]

8 hours ago, kurtwpg said:

Problem is, it's Russia. I don't think he can get a credible witness. I don't think in the current environment he could just easily meet up with Yurkovets, for example. I'm willing to give him some credit for essentially doing exactly what the grip community has asked of him in terms of measurement. So I'm pretty on the fence with him at this point, until we see more evidence in one direction or the other. 

I don't know why do some people think that Russia is cut of from rest of the world. The sanctions are only in Europe and the two upper countries in North of America. The rest of the world is open to then. Here in the UAE we have many flights daily to and from Russia. Plus, we have credible gripsters in Russia. I am sure Ivan Krivykh would do it if they were near.

If there wasn't any other way, I can always bring up the Tiziano offer. The offer is he pays for everything to Dubai. He meets me and proves himself. If he did, I will refund his flight and accommodation.

[degradated]

On 7/19/2024 at 7:14 PM, Jared P said:

While on the topic of gripper ratings, there are no magic formulas for the conversion - neither 0.445 nor 0.95. Both are flawed, and particular to specific rating devices.

As an example, here is Nikita Yurkovets' CCS PR of a CoC 4 rated 82 kg SGR/CXP.



82 / 0.445 = 184 lbs RGC
There are almost certainly no CoC 4s in existence with a CPW rating of 184, unless they are a mishap.

82 / 0.95 = 86.32 kg (190 lbs RGC)
190 is still an extreme outlier for a CoC 4, almost a point of concern, but much more realistic than 184.

Both conversion methods have their flaws, and there isn't really a way to accurately convert SGR/CXP to RGC using a set formula. You will get different results depending on who performed the initial SGR rating, whether it was Vadim, Nikita, or anyone else.

I chose to use 0.95 for the Heaviest closes list simply to keep it consistent. All ratings should be taken with a grain of salt in my opinion.

Hey Jared, on the topic of SGR>RGC ratings, I'm receiving 8 Silarukov grippers from a Russian gripster within a month or less. He has the exact machine that you've discussed and will be rating them for me. I have decided to also send them to Cannon to see how the numbers compare. I will be sure to report back. 

Here's a Silarukov 150 at max load.

[weightlifter]

14 minutes ago, degradated said:

Hey Jared, on the topic of SGR>RGC ratings, I'm receiving 8 Silarukov grippers from a Russian gripster within a month or less. He has the exact machine that you've discussed and will be rating them for me. I have decided to also send them to Cannon to see how the numbers compare. I will be sure to report back. 

Here's a Silarukov 150 at max load.

Hi! Could I ask you to measure grippers' dimensions, like spring diameter, inside coil diameter etc. to compare SGR/CPW ratings with theoretical ratings based on torsion spring formulas? I would send you instructions what dimensions are required and  how to measure it properly.

[degradated]

2 minutes ago, weightlifter said:

Hi! Could I ask you to measure grippers' dimensions, like spring diameter, inside coil diameter etc. to compare SGR/CPW ratings with theoretical ratings based on torsion spring formulas? I would send you instructions what dimensions are required and  how to measure it properly.

Yes, that's no problem, definitely! I have a Mitutoyo set of calipers that were fairly expensive which displays in mm or inches. 

I'll start a new thread once everything is sorted out and received. I don't want to take anything away from Dmitry Volegov's accomplishment here.

[bobd400]

As somebody completely new to grip sport, I do have to say there's some things in that video that do look a bit unusual. Then the fact that he did it twice in a row is really interesting too.

 

But you really have to wonder why somebody would fake something like this? It's not like there is huge financial reward, and as far as notoriety it's a pretty small niche group of people who would recognize or appreciate something like this.

Edited July 21 by bobd400

[DoctorOfCrush]

2 hours ago, degradated said:

Yes, that's no problem, definitely! I have a Mitutoyo set of calipers that were fairly expensive which displays in mm or inches. 

I'll start a new thread once everything is sorted out and received. I don't want to take anything away from Dmitry Volegov's accomplishment here.

I’ve done the same exact thing with 10 Silarukovs. We can combine our data when you get your results. 

[slazbob]

4 hours ago, bobd400 said:

As somebody completely new to grip sport, I do have to say there's some things in that video that do look a bit unusual. Then the fact that he did it twice in a row is really interesting too.

 

But you really have to wonder why somebody would fake something like this? It's not like there is huge financial reward, and as far as notoriety it's a pretty small niche group of people who would recognize or appreciate something like this.

It’s not always about them trying to get ahead, but getting attention and reaction 

[Jared P]

6 hours ago, bobd400 said:

But you really have to wonder why somebody would fake something like this? It's not like there is huge financial reward, and as far as notoriety it's a pretty small niche group of people who would recognize or appreciate something like this.

I asked the same question regarding Tiziano Becchio last year - I honestly couldn't imagine someone going through such lengths to manipulate equipment and packaging, to achieve a certification that relatively few people know or care about in such a niche sport. But Tiziano did do exactly that. Why? Who knows. Perhaps he would have cheated even if it were only himself on a deserted island. I'm not writing this to continue ridiculing him though - what's done is done - but rather to point out that his situation answered a lot of these hypotheticals and set a precedent that not only is such fraud possible, but has already been accomplished.

If you are unfamiliar with the Tiziano situation - he is an athlete who appeared out of nowhere in late 2022, began closing increasingly heavy grippers in a very short period of time, certified on the 3.5 by doing 3 reps, and then claimed a 221 rgc CoC 4 CCS close, a world record, all at 140 lbs bodyweight. Turns out, he lied about his scale being in kgs when it was set to lbs on his grip lifts, and was caught swapping the certification gripper from IronMind with a manipulated gripper that he purchased from Amazon (evident by the Amazon UPC barcode sticker on the back of the package). His real closing strength was likely around CoC 3 level, but was he was claiming to be able to close CoC 4s and GHP 9s with ease.

Many of us are concerned that Dmitry may be pulling a similar grift, with manipulated grippers, as a lot of the circumstances are reminiscent of Tiziano's trajectory and mannerisms - though Dmitry appears much stronger, and more likely to actually be able to do the things he is claiming.

Dmitry's closes may be legitimate, which would make him arguably the strongest gripper athlete ever, or there may be some fraudulent activity. The only way to know for sure is with an in-person reliable witness, and an authentic, unmanipulated gripper.

[Alawadhi]

6 hours ago, bobd400 said:

As somebody completely new to grip sport, I do have to say there's some things in that video that do look a bit unusual. Then the fact that he did it twice in a row is really interesting too.

 

But you really have to wonder why somebody would fake something like this? It's not like there is huge financial reward, and as far as notoriety it's a pretty small niche group of people who would recognize or appreciate something like this.

If you only knew about Timmy (Samuel Scott? From Australia), Joe Kinney, Tiziano, Silverback and the likes then all of this would seem normal to fake. Reasons are unknown. Maybe they like attention? 

I mean he looks strong, but Silverback looked strong too. He might be very strong, Silverback was very strong too. But Silverback faked gripper closes. Maybe it was for attention. Anyway he can always prove himself. Until then, I won't believe the CoC #4 cert video.

[Jared P]

After having watched Dmitry's CoC 4 certification video about 100+ times now, as well as comparing it to another recent Russian certification from the same distributor 'Bear Paw', the element that sticks out to me the most is the upper right corner of the package, where the UPC sticker is located:

Something looks off here. The card stock looks worn, damaged, or like it has been partially removed. It does not have the appearance of brand new, untouched card stock.

By contrast, here are some images from Andrei Selivanov's recent CoC 3 certification wherein the gripper was supplied by the same distributor. The card stock appears brand new and untouched, as best as I can tell.

[Jared P]

[Londonjoseph]

5 hours ago, Alawadhi said:

If you only knew about Timmy (Samuel Scott? From Australia), Joe Kinney, Tiziano, Silverback and the likes then all of this would seem normal to fake. Reasons are unknown. Maybe they like attention? 

I mean he looks strong, but Silverback looked strong too. He might be very strong, Silverback was very strong too. But Silverback faked gripper closes. Maybe it was for attention. Anyway he can always prove himself. Until then, I won't believe the CoC #4 cert video.

If I recall correctly, silverback actually showed up to a comp and was strong. He won by a very large margin. However- he did admit faking those closes at that very same comp! 

 

Food for thought.