Odin's Grip Journey

[EricMilfeld]

Bob, I perform the lift with a full range of motion just like you. But being that a full range of motion is different for everyone, there is a degree of subjectivity built into the rules. I wonder if this contributes to the lift's apparent lack of popularity. It seems the table top wrist curl would be easier to judge. The criteria for a proper lift is pretty black and white.

I appreciate your kind words. The internet does afford you the luxury of choosing your words wisely, though. Could you imagine what this place would be like if we all typed the first thing that popped into our minds! Actually, I've been accused of being too blunt at times in person, especially concerning disagreements. I'm honest almost to a fault, but not by any commendable degree of self will, it's just my god-given nature. Really though, I think that this board consists of a remarkably honest and kind cross section of society.

[odin]

Eric, I agree this sport draws an interesting cross-section of people, most are very honest, kind and intelligent. The moderators do a great job of eliminating the trolls, yet give them a fair chance to get their act together or prove they are for real first. There are always going to be at least a couple of stars and trolls emerging at any given point in time.

I tried wrist curls again the next night (Saturday) sitting on a hard surface. I was able to get 205 from my usual extreme bottom position to slightly above parallel, frustratingly close but certainly not a "slam dunk" full rep like I'd hoped for. That tells me there was some assist from the levering action when my hips sunk into the couch (unintentional cheat which delivered some leverage/momentum/increased elevation of the bar), I think intentional and well-timed use of this type of bounce technique could add 30+ pounds of weight to someone's maximum lift, so your decision was correct IMO. I do like the wrist curl as a GB record list feat, will try tabletop WC at Gripmas for the first time and let you know if I like it.

One thing this experience has shown me is the importance of video and the use of objective people to review it; a few years from now people may be doubting if certain feats ever happened, I don't think a single witness or still pictures are usually enough to eliminate doubt, although situations (contests, etc.) and people vary too much to grossly oversimplify this. Most active GB members own or have access to a video camera, so I'd like to see more videos of things like wrist curls that some people talk about using massive weights in.

11/18/07

Did OH extensor resistance for about 45 minutes while watching football, couldn't open IM red band afterwards.

Broke the 52.5 hex off the ground RH, but ripped more skin off my R thumb joint and it still feels like I have some kind of bruising, will have to wait on working towards attaining this feat until after Gripmas. L thumb is still tweaked when moved certain directions and during thick DB work at times. I was doing it because it felt like it was improving my fingertip strength. Sean Dockery has manhandled this blockweight's twin.

BH Pinch using two 45s w/ a pipe: best was weighed at 149, broke 154 off the ground (barely). Still disgusted with my weakness, but have improved, am trying to use palms more, but it's not at all natural.

Negatives & Mini-tramp Bounces with 50 lb. York Blob: used regular and last-3-finger grip. Did multiple attempts until I couldn't hold it anymore. I think thick DB work or cold weather is affecting my pinch, the 40 lb. York feels tough now, that's just silly!

Edited November 19, 2007 by odin

[odin]

11/19/07

rest

11/20/07

BW 157.4

OH extensor resistance

Shot rotations

15 minute walk w/ 50 lb. weighted vest

11/21/07

Inch DB+17 lbs: mostly spun on ground RH, maybe a millimeter and nothing LH

Inch DB+12 lbs: maybe 1/2 inch RH mm. LH

Inch DB attempts: 7 sets of 3 attempts w/ each hand. Getting more to shoetop level RH and maybe a tiny bit higher. LH is improving also, but still about 1/2 or less height. Did a few OH rotation stopper lifts, felt easy.

Just needed to test where I am at because I've been feeling weak lately, may do more negatives, bounces or OH rotation stopper lifts next time.

Inch DB mini-tramp work: several sets of holds and negatives from/at different heights. Holding it is getting much easier; also tried holding the DB with hand facing forward like a wrist curl and trying to hold it up w/ fingertips and flexing forearm, felt great, forearms cramping a bit at end but hard to make myself stop-also helped to actually see the rotation in fighting it (perhaps more visual & proprioceptive feedback?).

[odin]

10/24/07

BW (PM): 159.2

Thumb still a mess, rip healing but still deeply bruised and hurts to simply bend it a little, rest of body too many injuries/aches to do very much.

Wrist Curls: 85 lbs.x5 reps| 120 lbs.x5 reps| 155 lbs.x5 reps (easy)| 185 lbs.x1 rep (felt strong)| 205 lbs x broke parallel on a few sets of singles but not quite good enough.

Reverse Wrist Curls: 65 lbs.x3 reps; 85 lbs.x3 reps| 95 lbs.x1st sloppy rep+2 good reps | 100 lbs.x1 rep+2 cheat reps| 55 lbs.x30 reps| 60 lbs.x15 reps

2.5 inch DB Wrist Curls: 70 lbs. x2 reps RH x1 rep LH| 80 lbs. x1 rep RH x1 rep LH (feel this is pretty good for thick DB WC, hope to have 100 in near future BH).

Edited November 26, 2007 by odin

[climber511]

10/24/07

BW (PM): 159.2

Thumb still a mess, rip healing but still deeply bruised and hurts to simply bend it a little, rest of body too many injuries/aches to do very much.

Wrist Curls: 85 lbs.x5 reps| 120 lbs.x5 reps| 155 lbs.x5 reps (easy)| 185 lbs.x1 rep (felt strong)| 205 lbs x broke parallel on a few sets of singles but not quite good enough.

Reverse Wrist Curls: 65 lbs.x3 reps; 85 lbs.x3 reps| 95 lbs.x1st sloppy rep+2 good reps | 100 lbs.x1 rep+2 cheat reps| 55 lbs.x30 reps| 60 lbs.x15 reps

2.5 inch DB Wrist Curls: 70 lbs. x2 reps RH x1 rep LH| 80 lbs. x1 rep RH x1 rep LH (feel this is pretty good for thick DB WC, hope to have 100 in near future BH).

Going to interesting to see what you do on the Table Top Wrist Curl set up. As far as I know no one that is coming to Gripmas has ever done them. My money is on Josh Dale due to some big numbers in the past and some great Climber Curl workouts lately but it won't be any surprise to see someone unknown pull off some big numbers.

[odin]

Going to interesting to see what you do on the Table Top Wrist Curl set up. As far as I know no one that is coming to Gripmas has ever done them. My money is on Josh Dale due to some big numbers in the past and some great Climber Curl workouts lately but it won't be any surprise to see someone unknown pull off some big numbers.

I'd need to work on the actual ROM of the Table Top Wrist Curl; it seems like I'm as strong or stronger from the bottom (knuckles touching knees) to // as I am from // to the top. I don't know if that is atypical or not, the wrist curl is not as widely discussed or analyzed as any of the more basic movements. One thing I've noticed is that it feels better (except for balance) with my hands fairly close together. I've noticed Sam S. (COC#3) does his with a much wider grip in his youtube videos, maybe because he's a lot bigger?

11/26/07

Thumb not quite ready, may be able to pinch/crush,etc. again on Wednesday or ____?, still feels bruised and skin seems to "catch" when I bend it. Pain reduced quite a bit overall,just don't want another setback.

Inch Dumbbell OH assisted DL (sort of a sumo style w/ hand facing forward, like a wrist curl): 5 sets app. 2 reps EH.

Light rain, so used heavy chalk. I gave a minimal OH rotation stop and let go at about knee height, was able to pull to full DL, hold briefly, and lower in a controlled fashion, especially with RH, LH seems to rotate in a weird way sometimes.

Felt great to do it this way, but I think I may end up starting with regular straddle style and rotate the palm forward on the way up ultimately (believe that's how I've seen some do it, now I think I see why this happens.

Lower back just a little strained, this almost never happens, maybe the cold/wet weather? Will likely be better in a day or so, will be sure to do yoga tomorrow.

2.5 inch DB Wrist Curl: 80 lbs.x1 BH| 85 lbs.x almost BH

[mbcx6pmw]

I would be careful with the TTWC, a few of us ended up picking up injuries training it for the British champs, due to the slightly awkward position it puts you in and the amount of weight that can be used. Mobster said he preferred to do regular dumbell wrist curls and just practice the TTWC a few times. If it feels more comfortable with your hands close together I would go with that. I find a wider grip more comfortable, but I noticed David Horne and some of the other used a very narrow grip.

Those are some pretty good wrist curl numbers, you should do well.

[tja]

I would be careful with the TTWC, a few of us ended up picking up injuries training it for the British champs, due to the slightly awkward position it puts you in and the amount of weight that can be used. Mobster said he preferred to do regular dumbell wrist curls and just practice the TTWC a few times. If it feels more comfortable with your hands close together I would go with that. I find a wider grip more comfortable, but I noticed David Horne and some of the other used a very narrow grip.

Those are some pretty good wrist curl numbers, you should do well.

Odin, sorry to hijack your log (good job by the way!).

Noob, I don't quite understand the logic of not doing much TTWC in training. I'd think that the joints and tendons needed to get adapted to the heavy load!? Muscles certainly get a lot of training through DB curls.

[lifesnotfair]

In regards to your Wrist Curl hand possition question: I wondered this myself a LOT in the past, because I just couldn't even use a barbell for wrist curls, not with narrow or wide grip. I think it has to do with flexibility and possibly genetics as well... some people might feel uncomfortable when pronating/supinating the wrists too much and applying force. I use dumbells for wrist curls, because even the Pegasus feels awkward and hurts if I try to go heavy (which for me is not heavy at all). And my left wrist seems even less flexible, so I have to lean my body to the left side while doing the DB wrist curls with that hand.

[mbcx6pmw]

I would be careful with the TTWC, a few of us ended up picking up injuries training it for the British champs, due to the slightly awkward position it puts you in and the amount of weight that can be used. Mobster said he preferred to do regular dumbell wrist curls and just practice the TTWC a few times. If it feels more comfortable with your hands close together I would go with that. I find a wider grip more comfortable, but I noticed David Horne and some of the other used a very narrow grip.

Those are some pretty good wrist curl numbers, you should do well.

Odin, sorry to hijack your log (good job by the way!).

Noob, I don't quite understand the logic of not doing much TTWC in training. I'd think that the joints and tendons needed to get adapted to the heavy load!? Muscles certainly get a lot of training through DB curls.

Just a cautionary note based on my limited experience. By all means train the lift, just be careful with it. There's also the practical issues of getting the weight in place, really you need two spotters.

By the way, there's a picture of David Horne performing the TTWC in my gallery if you're interested. There's also a video of me doing it, only with a light warm up though.

[tja]

Oh, I think I must have miss-understood you then. Thanks for explaining. I'm not training the lift now, have enough to do with other stuff. Was just curious.

[odin]

Thanks to everyone for the interesting reading. I am happy to have a dialogue here, especially on some of the more esoteric/obscure points where information is lacking. I don't have time at the moment to respond to everthing, but appreciate your input.

11/28/07

Did yoga last two days, back still a little stiff, but improving.

Grippers: #2 BH| RB210: about 4 attempts BH (almost closed RH, tried again and videotaped, pretty good effort but not as close.)

I've only done a handful (or less, will need to check my log) of gripper workouts since my "comeback", but the other grip work I'm doing seems to be making my hands stronger.

I

We'll try to get some more direct coaching at Gripmas, no use continually practicing doing things the wrong way, but just wanted to get a "baseline".

Is the gripper in the "sweet spot" of my hand? I think it is a bit off. I tried to bend my wrist back a bit like Teemu, but I think you can see I'll need a little help if I'm going to close any bigger grippers soon.

Edited November 29, 2007 by odin

[tja]

Strong attempt! It's off from the sweet spot. I bet if you used some chalk and had the handle in the sweet spot you'd easily close it. Also, it looked to me that you barely use any set at all, you just use the left thumb to get the handle close to sweet spot and then immediately start squeezing with the right. Try pulling the handles closer with thumb/index finger of the left hand while placing the palm side handle to the sweet spot.

The video "Setting a gripper" on youtube by John Eaton was very helpful to me, look it up.

Good quality video by the way!

[Teemu I]

Strong attempt! It's off from the sweet spot. I bet if you used some chalk and had the handle in the sweet spot you'd easily close it. Also, it looked to me that you barely use any set at all, you just use the left thumb to get the handle close to sweet spot and then immediately start squeezing with the right. Try pulling the handles closer with thumb/index finger of the left hand while placing the palm side handle to the sweet spot.

The video "Setting a gripper" on youtube by John Eaton was very helpful to me, look it up.

Good quality video by the way!

That's a good advice. I'd add that you should try to press the thumb side handle against your palm in the sweet spot with your left thumb.

Also you really can't expect the handle to stay in the sweet spot, when you are not bringing the handles close enough before you start the actual close. The chalk also helps along with the wrist kink, it's the sum of little things that help you to anchor the gripper. Try to get more out of your strong thumb, actively pushing against the handle.

You could try to practice the setting alone to get comfortable with it.

Video was good.

I hope this helps, it would be more helpful of course if you would get some live coaching.

[odin]

Thanks for the advice Teemu, that was very helpful. I didn't get to stick around after Gripmas for more advice, but think I will meet up with Scott or Anson and also try to get a couple of hard grippers in chokers so I can work on the close.

12/12/07

BW 157.6

No real workouts since my last entry due to thumb and other injuries.

Have rested since Gripmas, just did a little bit of pinching tonight.

2H Pinch using two 45s w/ a pipe: 148 lbs.x 1 rep| 153 lbs.x 1 rep| 175 lbs. x 2 negative reps (held on well)|

Felt a lot harder than the Euro-pinch device I used at Gripmas. I should get 180 or more at my next contest if I can get any practice on the device.

Edited December 13, 2007 by odin

[Jonathan McMillan]

Bob,

I agree with your experience the Euro pinch device feels easier then regular plates!

Jon@han

[odin]

tja, thanks for the feedback and tips! John Eaton has offered to help me as needed with improving my gripper technique.

Jonathan, I might try using different plates with more texture for my euro-pinch practice to get a better idea of where I am, or buy a setup from Scott. Am open to experimentation, just need to progress.

12/13/07:

BW: 157.6

Did yoga with our clients for about an hour

IM Bands & OH Extensor resistance

12/14/07:

BW: 158.8

Rest

12/15/07

Dang-it-all Eaton! Spent a bunch of time talking to John Eaton on the phone, and never got around to training, despite good intentions. Met John at Gripmas, hit it off immediately, great guy and 100x more knowledgeable than me, so we ended up talking about Gripmas, training and life in general . It was more valuable and fun than a workout anyway. I'm still in post-contest mode, will write more detail about Gripmas later so I will apply some of what I learned there to my training and my next competition before I forget everything

12/16/07

BW: 158.0

Wrist Curls: 115 lbs.x5 reps| 140 lbs.x5 reps| 165 lbs.x5 reps (easy)| 185 lbs.x1 rep (felt strong)

2.5 inch DB Wrist Curls: (weighed on scale) 59 lbs. x3 reps BH | 70 lbs. x1 rep BH| 85 lbs. x1 rep RH (almost/maybe LH)| 90 lbs. x0 rep

Tried PC & PWC for the first time (below) as part of a "Build (skinny version) John Eaton-type wrist strength" training goal. :

Plate Curls: 25 lbs.x3 easy reps RH (hurts LH thumb joint a lot), so did assisted reps/negatives)|

Plate Wrist Curls: 25 lbs.x0 reps, did about 3 forced reps BH| (almost got it RH, hurts LH thumb joint.

Played with 7 lb. maul trying to lever varying ways. The Beatles' "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" was not the workout music chosen.

My R thumb feels almost 100% now, so I expect some major pinch improvement sometime in the next few months. I feel mentally tired from work, but very strong physically and healing up after all the rest I've been getting from training.

Edited December 17, 2007 by odin

[John Eaton]

Great workout Bob!!! We'll get that parallel set ironed out soon.

[odin]

Great workout Bob!!! We'll get that parallel set ironed out soon.

Thanks John, I'll be watching your video and trying to learn the set on a plastic gripper before I waste my energy on an IM gripper. I wish they came already set, the set is annoying and boring IMO.

This week has been a blur at work, will try to reconstruct this somewhat from memory. I hate the holidays, if you worked the substance abuse field you would as well, holidays are often a bad time for lapses and relapses. I'm mentally wasted.

Wednesday 12/19/07:

AM BW 159.8

Did some good Inch attempts w/o chalk 4 sets of 3 attempts

Did about 4 futile sets of blockweight pinch before I hit the groove:

Did l

and 3 successful

, LH broke ground with all fingers used.

Thursday 12/20/07

Did Yoga with my clients (felt great for about an hour afterwards), did a few handstand pushups with my feet tiptoing up wall to assist. Did IM red band and OH extensor work during meeting.

Friday 12/21/07:

Did Ring & Pinky 50 lb. Blob attempts w /RH (got air once, click here for video!) Video sucked, partly because I was a little surprised and it was one of those "just-in-case" ones I often do when attempting something ridiculous..

Did LH 50 lb. Blob DL attempts, almost locked out, can see at the end of R+P attempt video. Hands were pulsing and throbbing with power earlier in the day, don't really know how else to explain it. I felt like this on Wednesday also, that's why I even tried pinching tonight (forearms still a bit sore from Inch).

If you explore my log and youtube videos, you will be able to reconstruct how I've been working towards lifting the Blob with R & P (last two fingers). I've done it with the 40 lb. Blob and 2x25s already. I think I'll get it in less than a year, but it is very awkward and pulls hard on the palm structure (tendons?). Acorn or someone else will likely beat me to it, because all the stars will have to align for me to do it anytime soon.

Edited December 22, 2007 by odin

[tja]

Great R&P attempt!

[odin]

12/22/07

not really feeling it, holiday blues, but wanted to do something:

Wrist Curls: Did a few singles, up to 185, but not feeling good so i backed down and did

135 lbs.x10| 100 lbs.x25|Think I need to do sets of 5 to warmup, one set of 5 @ 95 didn't cut it.

Reverse Wrist Curls: 75 lbs.x3| 85 lbs.x3 100 lbsx2| 100 lbsx1

Great R&P attempt!

Thanks tja, it was one of those impulsive moments where I felt strong, and the Blob felt good in my hand when i was moving it around. I really felt like trying for a R + P attempt after reading Acorn's thread, so I stuck the padded mat underneath the blob and started the camera. I wasn't really expecting so much if any "air." It's not something I'd ordinarily do indoors without a lot more padding (I won't do it again-I hope ), but i've learned to go with my intuition when the moment is right to lift something. The Blob just felt so much better after some time indoors.

I tried the 50 lb. R + P Blob lift at Gripmas after easily doing a couple times it with my last three fingers and it really felt like it was ready to go up a ways if I was fresh (one of the Blobs I tried there felt really nice in my hand, blobs vary, just like grippers, and you might hate a blob I like and vise-versa).

Another weird side note about Gripmas-both Dave Thornton and John Eaton said I lifted 3x25s with index + middle only, but i don't remember that (Eaton said nerves can do that to your memory at contests). Maybe I don't remember because the lift was not fully to my satisfaction?

[odin]

12/25/07

: Got a good amount of air on several attempts. Felt like I was going to lock out on one, but the Blob suddenly squirted loose and tore the crap out of my thumb web. Superglued it together and continued (much better than Newskin, thanks for the tip @ Gripmas Dave Thornton).

: Did my best full DL yet LH.

Double Blob DL attempts: First attempt was best (shoetops or so BH), 2nd attempt tore LH thumb web. Applied Superglue.

I am still having what I could best describe as "power surges" in my hands the last week or so. My hands suddenly will feel full of blood, my pulse is throbbing strongly all the way to my fingertips and I have a powerful, electrified feeling in them and in my self-confidence. It is especially noticeable when I put on gloves at work, after sleep, or when I even think about grip. Sexual metaphors aside, it's an amazing feeling.

Around Gripmas, I was feeling at a low ebb in my pinch strength (except the actual day of the contest, then it was ok). Now I feel like I am bouncing back with a vengance and my pinch seems to be growing in power by the day.

Edited December 26, 2007 by odin

[dropkick]

nice workouts man, how long have you been trying for the inch?

[CoC#3]

great blob work dude!

[odin]

nice workouts man, how long have you been trying for the inch?

10/7/07 was the day Roger Steffens gave it to me. 10/8/07 was my first home workout with it. I've been able to get at least a little bit of air under both bells since the first day. Progress has been, fittingly, about an inch or so per month. I have a few pics in my gallery showing my slow but steady progress.

great blob work dude!

Thanks Sam! I'm trying to build a good base for closing some stout grippers down the road with the pinch and Inch work.

I'll be following your log as well.

12/26/07

BW:156.6

Plate Wrist Curls : 25 lbs.x2RHx1LH

Wrist Curls: groove not right in warmups, so I stopped

2.5 inch DB wrist curls (weighed on scale): (weighed on scale): 59lbs.x3 (EH) | 80 lbs.x1rep (EH) | 90 lbs.x0

played with 7 lb. maul and 10 lb. sledge: mostly choked-up levering, pronation, supination

Edited December 28, 2007 by odin