Bill Piche Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 Makes me wonder about spring drag. Notice the point of breakage, just a little past the point that the post of the spring contacts the main coil. On the inner coils I don’t think there is as much drag because the coils are parallel to each other, but the skew of the gripper may cause drag at that point, hard to say. Which side broke? I’d be willing to bet it was the dogleg side. I’m going to oil all my grippers that I commonly use as soon as possible! Sorry for your loss, I have its brother twin brother here and he mourns as well. It was not the dogleg side. It did break at the most curved point though. Easily seen to be the likely "stress" point. Looking at it, it appears the WIDER handles contribute to the increased likelyhood of BLOWING up a gripper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Wanna Do you no exactly how many squeezes it had before it exspired Seriously i no it was a vintage gripper,but was it used as much as your other grippers over time or was it only used recently,not shure wether you follow me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 It had a lot of squeezes. I had even sent it to Heath at one time. He's the only one to close it. Recently, there's been more squeezes since it was a goal. Pretty much daily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Wannagrip/Wannacry: Seriously, glad you were not injured by flying metal. Non-seriously, now grippers will come with one of those funnel-collars you see around a dog's neck. This can be placed around the wrist and will direct flying particles away from the squeezer. Paul: There were reports of such camps in the foothills of Utah but their affiliations were uncertain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 I have just sent Wannagrip 2 photos of the Gazza gripper that was made for me by Robert Baraban.the handled are solid chromium steel and the spring was taken out of a brand new #3 which i bought from pullum sports and was tried by me once upon receiving the gripper.I then sent the gripper to Robert and asked him to take out the #3 spring and chromium plate it and then put it into a pair of solid chromium steel handles which he did,giving me a custom gripper with a #3 spring for my own personal use.I would like to point out that that Robert has never been asked to modify an ironmind gripper by me,the Gazza gripper although having a #3 spring was a personal favour for me from Robert and obviously could never be classed as a lidgit #3. The point of all the above is that after receiving the Gazza gripper back from Robert,it was then seasoned by me by slipping 2 pieces of pipi over the handles and chest crushing it for 50 slow reps.It was then used for negatives useing the hand and hip method and probably had no more than250 closes,so you can see not realy well used like Wanna,s Silver spring Elite,but has broken in the same place. Coincerdence,you tell me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 I don't think it was a coincidence Gazza. I also believe that anyone who has one of the Beef Builder wide silver elites is in jeoprady of breaking it. 3Crushers is so darn hard I think that's what has saved it. Terminators? It's on the BLOW up list for sure. Or, anyone else who has one and has deflected it down to 1/4 or less for many reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 It would be interesting to find out what Richard Sorin thinks on the matter,as i bet he has crushed his silver crush grippers a lot more than most,plus there are not many grippers around that are plated that have been crushed a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 I can get mine now to parallel by setting it deep in my hand, I then close it against my leg. It’s been closed this way perhaps 50 times. Interesting about the break point, maybe there’s more movement on the finger side of a gripper since the other handle is in the palm. Too bad it dropped on the floor after the break, if you had slammed together the handles and said “Finally” then it could kinda count as a close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminator Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Bill, mine's been closed several hundred, maybe a thousand times between Heath and myself. I'd say it's a candidate for the grenade category. I'm torn because I want good pictures of me closing it but I don't need to get hurt anymore than I do to myself on a daily basis. We'll see how it plays out I guess. Hydrogen embrittlement is a real concern with chrome plated springs. What you also have is a lot of stress concentrations created by two materials with dissimilar properties working against each other (chromium vs. music wire), as well as a probable violation of the minimum bend radius for the wire size. I can elaborate on that last statement if you're interested, but suffice to say that the smaller the hole in the coil, the more suspect the spring will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMERHEAD Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Would the chrome springs on a RB Crusher matter as much since the gripper is a bit narrower? Since it is narrower the range of motion would be reduced and mabey the spring would be working in the "safe" zone. What are your thoughts on this? -HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 I think all grippers are capable of the spring snapping especially the higher IP ones,i think the higher IP grippers with wide apart handles are a resipy for disaster,wether the chromium plateting adds to that is anyones guess,has this happened to High IP /wide/non chromium plated grippers. I just dont think Torsion springs are meant to be stressed that way/angle etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Well, since I was the one who brought up the width as an issue I must say now that Terminator and Gazza have convinced me that "Hydrogen embrittlement" is a serious issue. However, since Terminator gripper has been "closed several hundred or a maybe a thousand times" then the answer may be in the width of the handles or deflection of the spring. If Terminators gripper has a smaller angle that could account for why he has closed it more without it breaking (and what about Steve's Elite, I tried that one it was very close too mine). Seriously, I doubt that it is very narrow, all these Silver Elites I've seen have been very wide. Also, since Gazza plated a new IM gripper that is a key point, that chrome is more detrimental than the spring deflection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Crusher Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Tom, When did you try my Elite? I don't believe I brought it to AOBS last year. Did you sneak into my basement when I was not looking? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mac Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 All springs will break eventually - just look at, say, shoch absiorbers in a car suspension. Metal is not meant to be continually bent and rebent many times in that way. I know that the more closes a gripper has (or "deflections" in the case of partials closes etc) the closer it comes to snapping, but, of course, they can also snap the first time they are used. The hyrdogen embrittlement is a serious issue, especially with plated bars. They may just be stories but people have been said to have been killed when bars have snapped - I have bent an olympic bar and that was a bad enough experince - I can't imagine what it must be like to have a bar snap during a clean or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 The handles on my gripper were about 68mms apart,so not very wide. The spring was a sudden loud snap like Wannagrips was no warning,maybe Warren Tetting has experienced this and thats why the plating was dropped. Did PDA ever come across this whilst seasoning peoples grippers or whilst making them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted May 7, 2003 Author Share Posted May 7, 2003 Here is what John at PDA said: Hydrogen embrittlement of carbon steel is just one unavoidable by-product of the chrome plating process. The acid pickling during preparation is the specific source of the embrittlement. Spring steel is available in stainless and non-stainless varieties. Guess which is loads cheaper and used much more frequently? The composition and processing create the tempering. The embrittlement effect is to de-temper the formulated spring steel. A similar effect would be to heat the spring to red hot, then cold quench it immediately. It would be stiffer for the same diameter of a non-quenched spring, feel very different, have a tendency to develop crystalline stress cracks that grow over time and eventually result in catastrophic failure. You have been breaking it from the start - just finally got all the way through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Steve, I thought I did, well, I did somebody's chrome spring at the Dinner, now I'm not sure which one. Didn't someone have one that had a big "3" on it, rather than "E". Where do you keep that gripper in the basement, is it the one in the lighted display case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Crusher Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Tom, My memory was a little foggy, but I remember actually trading my BBE with Heath for an extended #4 he made with washers at the AOBS, so it had to have been my BBE since it does have a big 3 on each handle. I am an old man you know, so forgive me, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Black Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 That's Ok, I've been thinking about it some more, you handed me the gripper to try, I guess I assumed it was yours, maybe it was Pat's gripper, but you had it at the time. Man, everythings a blur from that night. I remember saying that it felt the same as mine, but you tried mine and said you thought mine was a little easier. I remember thinking it was weird that one gripper had an "E" and the other a "3" but were from the same source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybersnott Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Tom, who was the guy sitting next to you and immediately to your left?? Uh, can I have a correction here: who was it that said that the springs get STRONGER as you use them?? Ha? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat 74 Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Uh, can I have a correction here: who was it that said that the springs get STRONGER as you use them?? Ha? I said it, why do you ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted May 8, 2003 Author Share Posted May 8, 2003 Uh, can I have a correction here: who was it that said that the springs get STRONGER as you use them?? Ha? I said it, why do you ask? Heath did. I still think he is wrong though. If that was the case, my car suspension would be good to go for life. Anyone ever have to replace their car suspensions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat 74 Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Like I said I've seen it twice. Once with a PDA 432, once with an IM #4, do all springs do it, no. Tetting told me about it, and I didn't belive him until I tried the PDA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Piche Posted May 8, 2003 Author Share Posted May 8, 2003 Like I said I've seen it twice. Once with a PDA 432, once with an IM #4, do all springs do it, no. Tetting told me about it, and I didn't belive him until I tried the PDA. How do you know it got harder? Maybe you just got weaker for a bit? :stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearcat 74 Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Possible that I got weaker. But, I had to go up in straphold weight before I could shut it again. Trust me, it got harder. And the #4 went from no set parallel lefty, to no set no move lefty over the course of a few weeks. I guess I am wrong and crazy, so is Terminator, and so is Tetting....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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