Help Me With Gripsport.org Page

[Jedd Johnson]

Right. Try comparing that day's combination of stiff 3 against a spongy 3 at another contest where the record gets broken and just watch the fighting commence.

[acorn]

Again, the Silver Bullet Hold seems like a problematic event to me.

I think you will find that in some cases a brand new #3 is used and in others and older one is used.

And no, not every event in a contest gets disqualified because one or more events is last man standing.

And yes, there are some very good lifts that took place there. I would love to include them all on our records list, but Last man Standing lifts are not added.

They are however used for NAGS Qualifying lifts, should the athlete be interested in submitting, as long as all other technical rules of the lift are followed, especially since Andrew allows video submissions for the qualifier lifts.

Jedd, we can certainly put the listing of the Silver Bullet times up on the Gripsport site to a vote by the Group of 5. I already have the performances up there for all occurrances in 2012 where it was contested at a Sanctioned Grip contest. It would be as easy as one click to remove that event as an option if a conscensus is arrived at that this could be a problematic event to track. I didn't see it as such when I was creating the lists but I have no issues on a vote to settle the matter.

- Aaron

[Hubgeezer]

Right. Try comparing that day's combination of stiff 3 against a spongy 3 at another contest where the record gets broken and just watch the fighting commence.

Look. In Post 17 you said some are new, some are old 3s. I am only aware of new 3s being used in contests. IronMind has sponsored two Silver Bullet contests. The first one and the July 15 one. Both had brand new 3s, transported by Strossen himself, the guy that "invented" the event, brought his gadget both times.

I am not on a crusade. I simply want to know what I am reading when I read results. To me, if IM's contests are considered another planet by Gripsport, so be it. Do I think that is right? Absolutely not, ESPECIALLY on the Silver Bullet. But as I have always said about IM Rules, their rules, their deal. And, if that goes for Gripsport, that's the way that goes too. At some point, RS is going to read this thread, and I imagine he will be baffled at best. But he has baffled more than a few along the way as well, so perhaps this is the nature of the beast.

[Shoggoth]

It comes down to RGC ratings so there's your can of worms with Randall and not new vs older grippers.

[climber511]

Right. Try comparing that day's combination of stiff 3 against a spongy 3 at another contest where the record gets broken and just watch the fighting commence.

Look. In Post 17 you said some are new, some are old 3s. I am only aware of new 3s being used in contests. IronMind has sponsored two Silver Bullet contests. The first one and the July 15 one. Both had brand new 3s, transported by Strossen himself, the guy that "invented" the event, brought his gadget both times.

I am not on a crusade. I simply want to know what I am reading when I read results. To me, if IM's contests are considered another planet by Gripsport, so be it. Do I think that is right? Absolutely not, ESPECIALLY on the Silver Bullet. But as I have always said about IM Rules, their rules, their deal. And, if that goes for Gripsport, that's the way that goes too. At some point, RS is going to read this thread, and I imagine he will be baffled at best. But he has baffled more than a few along the way as well, so perhaps this is the nature of the beast.

Mike - will Randall allow a COC#3 close done CSS in a Grip Sport comp to go onto his cert list? Come on Mike - If this could be worked out where things might go both ways - I'd be willing to start talking about it right now. I don't see that as a reality at this point but maybe I'm wrong. If I want to cert and get onto the IM list - I follow ALL of their rules - it's Randall's cert and he makes the rules. Why would you think Iron Mind - Fit Expo - Mighty Mitts or anyone else should go onto the Grip Sport list without that same consideration of following all of our rules? Do you or Randall wish to become involved in the organization and helping to further our efforts? I for one would welcome the help and the chance to advance the whole effort of growing the sport. What Grip Sport asks for is pretty simple and easy stuff to do - certainly no more complex or difficult than an IM cert process - so if a promoter wants in - it's a very easy thing to do and costs nothing. But I (just speaking for myself) find it very wrong to expect otherwise.

[daniel reinard]

Right. Try comparing that day's combination of stiff 3 against a spongy 3 at another contest where the record gets broken and just watch the fighting commence.

This happened with the first two SB events. The Jan one felt normal ~150 at best. The July one many people claimed it to be a "hard" #3. I recall a few contestants saying their times were greatly reduced due to how hard it was. Mike is one of only a couple people who tried both events so he may be the best to recall the gripper strengths.

[Jedd Johnson]

Again, the Silver Bullet Hold seems like a problematic event to me.

I think you will find that in some cases a brand new #3 is used and in others and older one is used.

And no, not every event in a contest gets disqualified because one or more events is last man standing.

And yes, there are some very good lifts that took place there. I would love to include them all on our records list, but Last man Standing lifts are not added.

They are however used for NAGS Qualifying lifts, should the athlete be interested in submitting, as long as all other technical rules of the lift are followed, especially since Andrew allows video submissions for the qualifier lifts.

Jedd, we can certainly put the listing of the Silver Bullet times up on the Gripsport site to a vote by the Group of 5. I already have the performances up there for all occurrances in 2012 where it was contested at a Sanctioned Grip contest. It would be as easy as one click to remove that event as an option if a conscensus is arrived at that this could be a problematic event to track. I didn't see it as such when I was creating the lists but I have no issues on a vote to settle the matter.

- Aaron

I don't catch the results of every comp. I wasn't aware of the Silver Bullet hold going on in any comps other than Fit Expo up to this point.

Right. Try comparing that day's combination of stiff 3 against a spongy 3 at another contest where the record gets broken and just watch the fighting commence.

Look. In Post 17 you said some are new, some are old 3s.

I don't see where I said this in Post 17.

I am only aware of new 3s being used in contests. IronMind has sponsored two Silver Bullet contests. The first one and the July 15 one. Both had brand new 3s, transported by Strossen himself, the guy that "invented" the event, brought his gadget both times.

Mike, regarding what grippers were used in what contests, I have no clue. It's never been contested in any contests I have done.Mike, regarding what grippers were used in what contests, I have no clue. It's never been contested in any contests I have done.

According to Aaron, it has been done in other contests. Only the promoters and athletes know how tough the grippers were.

[Jedd Johnson]

I am not on a crusade. I simply want to know what I am reading when I read results.To me, if IM's contests are considered another planet by Gripsport, so be it. Do I think that is right? Absolutely not, ESPECIALLY on the Silver Bullet. But as I have always said about IM Rules, their rules, their deal. And, if that goes for Gripsport, that's the way that goes too. At some point, RS is going to read this thread, and I imagine he will be baffled at best. But he has baffled more than a few along the way as well, so perhaps this is the nature of the beast.

I am only trying to answer your questions and give explanations to what I am saying.

(The quoting structure began failing, so I pulled this down into a separate section).

[Hubgeezer]

Silver Bullet rules:

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/_2011/CoC-Silver-Bullet-Rules-World-Records

From the June 2012 MILO Magazine, page 75:

"Mark Felix's 43.25 seconds beat Andrew Durniat's 33.49, with strongman Jerry Pritchett holding it for 27.07, edging Daniel Reinard's respectable 25.77."

The venue was the Los Angeles Convention Center, January 29, 2012 at the "Met-Rx IronMInd Visegrip Viking Grip Contest Presented by GNC" as part of the 2012 Los Angeles FitExpo. It was the world debut of the event, and it established the first marks on the Silver Bullet hold, and well as the inaugural world record.

Question: Are there any other rules to the Silver Bullet hold that are published by anyone other than the rules posted on the IronMind site? Website, contest material, past present or future?

If anyone wants any of the other competitors' Silver Bullet numbers from that contest, ask me, and I will dig them up. If no one wants them, I won't look. There were a few that had "no mark" on the event, zero seconds.

[Cannon]

The one time I did Silver Bullet at Adam's comp, it was a new #3.

[Cannon]

Right. Try comparing that day's combination of stiff 3 against a spongy 3 at another contest where the record gets broken and just watch the fighting commence.

Look. In Post 17 you said some are new, some are old 3s.

I think it's post 24?

[Randall Strossen]

One of the reasons why TEDS put a spotlight on the 1 - 2 = 12 fallacy is because it was a very simple thing to disprove—nothing very slippery in that one and with all the familiar talk here about old/new, stiff/spongy, RGCx/RGCy, it's nice to have an example of how patently false a gripper claim can be, even if repeated as true by any number of people.

On the other hand, neither that, nor the confusion about the Silver Bullet rules re: new/old grippers and also the lack of familiarity with contests beyond the FitExpo that have featured the CoC Silver Bullet, will probably do much to change anyone's opinions, and everyone will hold whatever contests they want to, with whatever equipment they want and declare the results good, bad or indifferent, as they want to—and life will go on.

[jchapman]

One of the reasons why TEDS put a spotlight on the 1 - 2 = 12 fallacy is because it was a very simple thing to disprove—nothing very slippery in that one and with all the familiar talk here about old/new, stiff/spongy, RGCx/RGCy, it's nice to have an example of how patently false a gripper claim can be, even if repeated as true by any number of people.

On the other hand, neither that, nor the confusion about the Silver Bullet rules re: new/old grippers and also the lack of familiarity with contests beyond the FitExpo that have featured the CoC Silver Bullet, will probably do much to change anyone's opinions, and everyone will hold whatever contests they want to, with whatever equipment they want and declare the results good, bad or indifferent, as they want to—and life will go on.

What?

[Jedd Johnson]

Silver Bullet rules:

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/_2011/CoC-Silver-Bullet-Rules-World-Records

From the June 2012 MILO Magazine, page 75:

"Mark Felix's 43.25 seconds beat Andrew Durniat's 33.49, with strongman Jerry Pritchett holding it for 27.07, edging Daniel Reinard's respectable 25.77."

OK.

The venue was the Los Angeles Convention Center, January 29, 2012 at the "Met-Rx IronMInd Visegrip Viking Grip Contest Presented by GNC" as part of the 2012 Los Angeles FitExpo. It was the world debut of the event, and it established the first marks on the Silver Bullet hold, and well as the inaugural world record.

OK

Question: Are there any other rules to the Silver Bullet hold that are published by anyone other than the rules posted on the IronMind site? Website, contest material, past present or future?

I don't know.

If anyone wants any of the other competitors' Silver Bullet numbers from that contest, ask me, and I will dig them up. If no one wants them, I won't look. There were a few that had "no mark" on the event, zero seconds.

Thanks Mike.

[Jedd Johnson]

One of the reasons why TEDS put a spotlight on the 1 - 2 = 12 fallacy is because it was a very simple thing to disprove—nothing very slippery in that one and with all the familiar talk here about old/new, stiff/spongy, RGCx/RGCy, it's nice to have an example of how patently false a gripper claim can be, even if repeated as true by any number of people.

On the other hand, neither that, nor the confusion about the Silver Bullet rules re: new/old grippers and also the lack of familiarity with contests beyond the FitExpo that have featured the CoC Silver Bullet, will probably do much to change anyone's opinions, and everyone will hold whatever contests they want to, with whatever equipment they want and declare the results good, bad or indifferent, as they want to—and life will go on.

I am sorry but I do not understand what you are saying here.

[Jedd Johnson]

Again, the Silver Bullet Hold seems like a problematic event to me.

I think you will find that in some cases a brand new #3 is used and in others and older one is used.

And no, not every event in a contest gets disqualified because one or more events is last man standing.

And yes, there are some very good lifts that took place there. I would love to include them all on our records list, but Last man Standing lifts are not added.

They are however used for NAGS Qualifying lifts, should the athlete be interested in submitting, as long as all other technical rules of the lift are followed, especially since Andrew allows video submissions for the qualifier lifts.

Thank you to Matt Cannon for pointing out what post Mike Corlett was refering to.

It seems that Mike is hung up on this statement: "I think you will find that in some cases a brand new #3 is used and in others and older one is used."

I was not saying one or any of the grippers at events like Fit Expo might have been old, previously used, or spongy #3's.

I was talking about contests and challenges that might take place in the future. For instance, I doubt IronMind wants to send a new gripper to everyone interested in running this challenge. I also doubt every single contest promoter will want to buy a new Gripper every time they run the challenge.

I could easily see a promoter advertising the Silver Bullet Hold at a contest and just using one of their #3 grippers in their collection for the event and reporting the results here or on David Horne's site, or someplace else.

How would I know what #3 was used?

This is the point I was trying to make. I was certainly not trying to disrespect the past events that have taken place at Fit Expo.

Jedd

[Randall Strossen]

One of the reasons why TEDS put a spotlight on the 1 - 2 = 12 fallacy is because it was a very simple thing to disprove—nothing very slippery in that one and with all the familiar talk here about old/new, stiff/spongy, RGCx/RGCy, it's nice to have an example of how patently false a gripper claim can be, even if repeated as true by any number of people.

On the other hand, neither that, nor the confusion about the Silver Bullet rules re: new/old grippers and also the lack of familiarity with contests beyond the FitExpo that have featured the CoC Silver Bullet, will probably do much to change anyone's opinions, and everyone will hold whatever contests they want to, with whatever equipment they want and declare the results good, bad or indifferent, as they want to—and life will go on.

What?

Sorry about that—let me try again:

People can say whatever they like and it may or may not be true.

Funny thing, but for most people, the facts won't influence their opinions as much as what their friends, for example, say.

No need for anyone to drive himself crazy about this because especially with the internet, people have a lot of options in terms of where they hang their hat, so everyone can be happy or at least find 3 people who they can bond with.

Is that any better?

One of the reasons why TEDS put a spotlight on the 1 - 2 = 12 fallacy is because it was a very simple thing to disprove—nothing very slippery in that one and with all the familiar talk here about old/new, stiff/spongy, RGCx/RGCy, it's nice to have an example of how patently false a gripper claim can be, even if repeated as true by any number of people.

On the other hand, neither that, nor the confusion about the Silver Bullet rules re: new/old grippers and also the lack of familiarity with contests beyond the FitExpo that have featured the CoC Silver Bullet, will probably do much to change anyone's opinions, and everyone will hold whatever contests they want to, with whatever equipment they want and declare the results good, bad or indifferent, as they want to—and life will go on.

I am sorry but I do not understand what you are saying here.

Jedd -

Sorry that was clear as mud—hope my second try was a little better!

[Randall Strossen]

Again, the Silver Bullet Hold seems like a problematic event to me.

I think you will find that in some cases a brand new #3 is used and in others and older one is used.

And no, not every event in a contest gets disqualified because one or more events is last man standing.

And yes, there are some very good lifts that took place there. I would love to include them all on our records list, but Last man Standing lifts are not added.

They are however used for NAGS Qualifying lifts, should the athlete be interested in submitting, as long as all other technical rules of the lift are followed, especially since Andrew allows video submissions for the qualifier lifts.

Thank you to Matt Cannon for pointing out what post Mike Corlett was refering to.

It seems that Mike is hung up on this statement: "I think you will find that in some cases a brand new #3 is used and in others and older one is used."

I was not saying one or any of the grippers at events like Fit Expo might have been old, previously used, or spongy #3's.

I was talking about contests and challenges that might take place in the future. For instance, I doubt IronMind wants to send a new gripper to everyone interested in running this challenge. I also doubt every single contest promoter will want to buy a new Gripper every time they run the challenge.

I could easily see a promoter advertising the Silver Bullet Hold at a contest and just using one of their #3 grippers in their collection for the event and reporting the results here or on David Horne's site, or someplace else.

How would I know what #3 was used?

This is the point I was trying to make. I was certainly not trying to disrespect the past events that have taken place at Fit Expo.

Jedd

Jedd -

IronMind has sent a new Captains of Crush No. 3 when there was a reasonable basis for believing there might be a world record or at least a significant attempt—my guess is that at least some of the guys reading this thread know that from their personal experience.

It is expensive, but it's a lot cheaper than all those new Rolling Thunder handles we sent out for years under similar conditions!

[Jedd Johnson]

That is great support of contests. I know I have appreciated every single time you have sponsored one of the grip events I have promoted with things like Rolling Thunder devices.

[Jedd Johnson]

One of the reasons why TEDS put a spotlight on the 1 - 2 = 12 fallacy is because it was a very simple thing to disprove—nothing very slippery in that one and with all the familiar talk here about old/new, stiff/spongy, RGCx/RGCy, it's nice to have an example of how patently false a gripper claim can be, even if repeated as true by any number of people.

On the other hand, neither that, nor the confusion about the Silver Bullet rules re: new/old grippers and also the lack of familiarity with contests beyond the FitExpo that have featured the CoC Silver Bullet, will probably do much to change anyone's opinions, and everyone will hold whatever contests they want to, with whatever equipment they want and declare the results good, bad or indifferent, as they want to—and life will go on.

What?

Sorry about that—let me try again:

People can say whatever they like and it may or may not be true.

Funny thing, but for most people, the facts won't influence their opinions as much as what their friends, for example, say.

No need for anyone to drive himself crazy about this because especially with the internet, people have a lot of options in terms of where they hang their hat, so everyone can be happy or at least find 3 people who they can bond with.

Is that any better?

One of the reasons why TEDS put a spotlight on the 1 - 2 = 12 fallacy is because it was a very simple thing to disprove—nothing very slippery in that one and with all the familiar talk here about old/new, stiff/spongy, RGCx/RGCy, it's nice to have an example of how patently false a gripper claim can be, even if repeated as true by any number of people.

On the other hand, neither that, nor the confusion about the Silver Bullet rules re: new/old grippers and also the lack of familiarity with contests beyond the FitExpo that have featured the CoC Silver Bullet, will probably do much to change anyone's opinions, and everyone will hold whatever contests they want to, with whatever equipment they want and declare the results good, bad or indifferent, as they want to—and life will go on.

I am sorry but I do not understand what you are saying here.

Jedd -

Sorry that was clear as mud—hope my second try was a little better!

Yep, people on the internet WILL find the people they can bond with. That fact has been very clear throughout the progression of this thread.

[Randall Strossen]

That is great support of contests. I know I have appreciated every single time you have sponsored one of the grip events I have promoted with things like Rolling Thunder devices.

Jedd -

That's nice of you to say and I appreciate it, but part of this was because the "old" (no kidding, here) Rolling Thunder was susceptible to doctoring and also other things that could influence how someone would perform on it, so to keep things fair, IronMind always sent a new Rolling Thunder—that's why so many of the guys who could do something like 300 lb. on their pet Rolling Thunder, shot blanks when they hit, say, 230 on a legit handle.

One of our objectives when we redesigned the Rolling Thunder handle was to solve this problem and while we still had to work out a couple of details after we first introduced it, the "new" (no kidding, again) Rolling Thunder handle has done great: we designed it so that it's easy to test on the spot, so that if it passes, the lifts should be considered good from an equipment point of view.

[Randall Strossen]

One of the reasons why TEDS put a spotlight on the 1 - 2 = 12 fallacy is because it was a very simple thing to disprove—nothing very slippery in that one and with all the familiar talk here about old/new, stiff/spongy, RGCx/RGCy, it's nice to have an example of how patently false a gripper claim can be, even if repeated as true by any number of people.

On the other hand, neither that, nor the confusion about the Silver Bullet rules re: new/old grippers and also the lack of familiarity with contests beyond the FitExpo that have featured the CoC Silver Bullet, will probably do much to change anyone's opinions, and everyone will hold whatever contests they want to, with whatever equipment they want and declare the results good, bad or indifferent, as they want to—and life will go on.

What?

Sorry about that—let me try again:

People can say whatever they like and it may or may not be true.

Funny thing, but for most people, the facts won't influence their opinions as much as what their friends, for example, say.

No need for anyone to drive himself crazy about this because especially with the internet, people have a lot of options in terms of where they hang their hat, so everyone can be happy or at least find 3 people who they can bond with.

Is that any better?

One of the reasons why TEDS put a spotlight on the 1 - 2 = 12 fallacy is because it was a very simple thing to disprove—nothing very slippery in that one and with all the familiar talk here about old/new, stiff/spongy, RGCx/RGCy, it's nice to have an example of how patently false a gripper claim can be, even if repeated as true by any number of people.

On the other hand, neither that, nor the confusion about the Silver Bullet rules re: new/old grippers and also the lack of familiarity with contests beyond the FitExpo that have featured the CoC Silver Bullet, will probably do much to change anyone's opinions, and everyone will hold whatever contests they want to, with whatever equipment they want and declare the results good, bad or indifferent, as they want to—and life will go on.

I am sorry but I do not understand what you are saying here.

Jedd -

Sorry that was clear as mud—hope my second try was a little better!

Yep, people on the internet WILL find the people they can bond with. That fact has been very clear throughout the progression of this thread.

Jedd -

I haven't followed this thread closely enough to know those details, but it's not just a grip thing or an internet phenomenon—man's a social animal and the herd instinct is powerful for good reasons, so it's a rare person who bucks what his identity group says is true, even when it's not.

[Jedd Johnson]

That is great support of contests. I know I have appreciated every single time you have sponsored one of the grip events I have promoted with things like Rolling Thunder devices.

Jedd -

That's nice of you to say and I appreciate it, but part of this was because the "old" (no kidding, here) Rolling Thunder was susceptible to doctoring and also other things that could influence how someone would perform on it, so to keep things fair, IronMind always sent a new Rolling Thunder—that's why so many of the guys who could do something like 300 lb. on their pet Rolling Thunder, shot blanks when they hit, say, 230 on a legit handle.

One of our objectives when we redesigned the Rolling Thunder handle was to solve this problem and while we still had to work out a couple of details after we first introduced it, the "new" (no kidding, again) Rolling Thunder handle has done great: we designed it so that it's easy to test on the spot, so that if it passes, the lifts should be considered good from an equipment point of view.

Honestly, I wasn't trying to debate about rolling thunder handles, I was being truthful in saying I appreciated support from you and your company when we have held contests and World Series of Grip in the past.

One of the reasons why TEDS put a spotlight on the 1 - 2 = 12 fallacy is because it was a very simple thing to disprove—nothing very slippery in that one and with all the familiar talk here about old/new, stiff/spongy, RGCx/RGCy, it's nice to have an example of how patently false a gripper claim can be, even if repeated as true by any number of people.

On the other hand, neither that, nor the confusion about the Silver Bullet rules re: new/old grippers and also the lack of familiarity with contests beyond the FitExpo that have featured the CoC Silver Bullet, will probably do much to change anyone's opinions, and everyone will hold whatever contests they want to, with whatever equipment they want and declare the results good, bad or indifferent, as they want to—and life will go on.

What?

Sorry about that—let me try again:

People can say whatever they like and it may or may not be true.

Funny thing, but for most people, the facts won't influence their opinions as much as what their friends, for example, say.

No need for anyone to drive himself crazy about this because especially with the internet, people have a lot of options in terms of where they hang their hat, so everyone can be happy or at least find 3 people who they can bond with.

Is that any better?

One of the reasons why TEDS put a spotlight on the 1 - 2 = 12 fallacy is because it was a very simple thing to disprove—nothing very slippery in that one and with all the familiar talk here about old/new, stiff/spongy, RGCx/RGCy, it's nice to have an example of how patently false a gripper claim can be, even if repeated as true by any number of people.

On the other hand, neither that, nor the confusion about the Silver Bullet rules re: new/old grippers and also the lack of familiarity with contests beyond the FitExpo that have featured the CoC Silver Bullet, will probably do much to change anyone's opinions, and everyone will hold whatever contests they want to, with whatever equipment they want and declare the results good, bad or indifferent, as they want to—and life will go on.

I am sorry but I do not understand what you are saying here.

Jedd -

Sorry that was clear as mud—hope my second try was a little better!

Yep, people on the internet WILL find the people they can bond with. That fact has been very clear throughout the progression of this thread.

Jedd -

I haven't followed this thread closely enough to know those details, but it's not just a grip thing or an internet phenomenon—man's a social animal and the herd instinct is powerful for good reasons, so it's a rare person who bucks what his identity group says is true, even when it's not.

Just confirming message received.