Ironmind Grippers: Do They Vary?

[bencrush]

CoC´s do not vary, do not "season" even a little bit. There is no need for "left handed" CoC because force needed for close is same when using left/right hand(99.9% just have stronger crush on right hand). Your hand/fingers aren´t more sensitive than your thighs and glutes. Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

If you have an RGC and have rated a bunch of grippers you'd know that your statement about COCs not varying and not seasoning is false. Remember that just because we're saying they DO vary and DO season a bit it doesn't mean that we're knocking them necessarily. All grippers vary and all brands season at least a little bit. Some of them much more than others.

[brujeria]

CoC´s do not vary, do not "season" even a little bit. There is no need for "left handed" CoC because force needed for close is same when using left/right hand(99.9% just have stronger crush on right hand). Your hand/fingers aren´t more sensitive than your thighs and glutes. Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

If you have an RGC and have rated a bunch of grippers you'd know that your statement about COCs not varying and not seasoning is false. Remember that just because we're saying they DO vary and DO season a bit it doesn't mean that we're knocking them necessarily. All grippers vary and all brands season at least a little bit. Some of them much more than others.

did you notice that I just wrote what stands on IM webpage

I am happy to own #3 at 150.1lbs (3.00) and #3.5 179.95 lbs rated exact 3.50.

I just fill the gaps with other brands that do vary, and can say that it is not just one or two grippers that fall between 3 and 3.5

Edit: of course CoC´s vary, but because IM does say they won´t, I own just one of each CoC´s.

Edited April 11, 2012 by brujeria

[Randall Strossen]

Yes, they vary. The newer ones less than the older ones - so quality control is tighter. Very tight for the most part - as Josh mentioned - a $20 gripper.

Every time I hear someone say that they won't certify until they've CCS closed the hardest #3 around I chuckle and think about Jason Payne's monster #3. Old steel-handled gripper that has never been closed. And probably won't be CCS closed unless it's by a man who has CCS closed an "easy" #4.

I have seen that some of the overseas guys (Finns? - or other Norwegians?) in their RGC rating thread have had some pretty low numbers (low 140lb range) at the extreme and not as many hard (mid-150lb range) #3s the past year.

Yeah, Jason's #3 is the Full Sterkur of #3 closes in my book

"The Full Sterkur of #3 closes . . ." Great line—buy this guy a cigar.

[bencrush]

Yes, they vary. The newer ones less than the older ones - so quality control is tighter. Very tight for the most part - as Josh mentioned - a $20 gripper.

Every time I hear someone say that they won't certify until they've CCS closed the hardest #3 around I chuckle and think about Jason Payne's monster #3. Old steel-handled gripper that has never been closed. And probably won't be CCS closed unless it's by a man who has CCS closed an "easy" #4.

I have seen that some of the overseas guys (Finns? - or other Norwegians?) in their RGC rating thread have had some pretty low numbers (low 140lb range) at the extreme and not as many hard (mid-150lb range) #3s the past year.

Yeah, Jason's #3 is the Full Sterkur of #3 closes in my book

"The Full Sterkur of #3 closes . . ." Great line—buy this guy a cigar.

Yeah, it's pretty good! I think I mentioned Jason's #3 to you before Randall. It is monstrously hard. Andrew Durniat was able to give it a shot at one of Al Myers's USAWA contests but wasn't even close. In his defense he had done a bunch of grip stuff. But to be honest I don't think he would've closed it even at full strength that particular day. He might be able to parallel set close it at his strongest though. If I remember right it's 3.25" wide too. It is a beauty and I wish I could afford to take it off Jason's hands. Although I don't think he's selling it at any price.

[Randall Strossen]

"A difference to be a difference must make a difference." But does it, really?

There was a guy in graduate school who used to give us a headache with that line—he was referring to statistically significant differences and differences that make a difference.

[bencrush]

CoC´s do not vary, do not "season" even a little bit. There is no need for "left handed" CoC because force needed for close is same when using left/right hand(99.9% just have stronger crush on right hand). Your hand/fingers aren´t more sensitive than your thighs and glutes. Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

If you have an RGC and have rated a bunch of grippers you'd know that your statement about COCs not varying and not seasoning is false. Remember that just because we're saying they DO vary and DO season a bit it doesn't mean that we're knocking them necessarily. All grippers vary and all brands season at least a little bit. Some of them much more than others.

did you notice that I just wrote what stands on IM webpage

I am happy to own #3 at 150.1lbs (3.00) and #3.5 179.95 lbs rated exact 3.50.

I just fill the gaps with other brands that do vary, and can say that it is not just one or two grippers that fall between 3 and 3.5

Edit: of course CoC´s vary, but because IM does say they won´t, I own just one of each CoC´s.

Good thing I didn't say it was only one or two grippers that fall between the #3 and the #3.5. I've closed a bunch of grippers since 2000 and have owned many different brands too. They all have something to offer. Some are crappy quality. Those are the ones that I don't mind throwing in a bag and taking with me on vacation. If they get stole, so what! My higher quality ones I still like to take on vacation but I would be a bit upset if they got stolen.

Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

Then why are you even taking the time to have a friendly argument about this topic that you obviously know so much about when you could be using this time for training? Better get to it!

[Bill Piche]

"Randy used to use the analogy of uncalibrated barbell plates. Guys scoffed at that. I have a 45 lb plate that weighs 49 pounds, and one that weighs 44. These days, it seems like a valid analogy.

I don't think this was the case (the scoffing part). I think it was more like agreement (I myself agreed that was very valid) when he said this the first time. If anyone has a really old IM catalog in the 90's it would be interesting to see the wording used about the #3. I don't remember what it was exactly but I am pretty sure it was not along these lines.

I found my oldest catalog, 1999, it may have been the first time the analogy was used, but it was there. It was a Q and A, in answer to a friend of the writer's older gripper feeling harder than a current one.A few months before then, I remember commenting to my brother that I found some variances in a couple of number 2s, and he encouraged me to contact IronMind. I didn't. But, I think that catalog may have been the first time the subject was addressed to the Public at large, because it was a partial answer to what I was wondering, and I don't think I had seen it addressed in the earlier catalog (my first one was from 1998 and I didn't save that one). Looking back at what was written, 13 years later, it reads well.

I was referring to early 90's. Maybe Randy has a copy but the wording had quite the opposite tone (I think).

[Hubgeezer]

"Randy used to use the analogy of uncalibrated barbell plates. Guys scoffed at that. I have a 45 lb plate that weighs 49 pounds, and one that weighs 44. These days, it seems like a valid analogy.

I don't think this was the case (the scoffing part). I think it was more like agreement (I myself agreed that was very valid) when he said this the first time. If anyone has a really old IM catalog in the 90's it would be interesting to see the wording used about the #3. I don't remember what it was exactly but I am pretty sure it was not along these lines.

I found my oldest catalog, 1999, it may have been the first time the analogy was used, but it was there. It was a Q and A, in answer to a friend of the writer's older gripper feeling harder than a current one.A few months before then, I remember commenting to my brother that I found some variances in a couple of number 2s, and he encouraged me to contact IronMind. I didn't. But, I think that catalog may have been the first time the subject was addressed to the Public at large, because it was a partial answer to what I was wondering, and I don't think I had seen it addressed in the earlier catalog (my first one was from 1998 and I didn't save that one). Looking back at what was written, 13 years later, it reads well.

I was referring to early 90's. Maybe Randy has a copy but the wording had quite the opposite tone (I think).

Early 90s? That was before my time. It would be interesting to see what a catalog looked like back then. Two products - - IM Grippers and the book Super Squats? I bet from a "collector's" standpoint, that would be worth something. I heard that the guy who wrote the Mighty Atom book manipulated things to cause the book to "go rare", sending the price through the roof. If Randy saved a few hundred "single stamp" grippers, he could leak them out and make 2012 his most profitable year ever...

[Randall Strossen]

I presume the guys posting know this, maybe a lot of readers do not, but Wade's website has a nifty gadget on it where you key in the brand, the model, and push the button, and...you get the lowest number, the highest number, the mean, the sample size and the standard deviation for that make and model of gripper.

The FInnish website probably has the largest sample of grippers measured.

All grippers vary. I think both of these sources will tell you that IronMind vary the least, and RB vary the most (I am not including HGs). What I have never checked out before is the 1.5, 2.5, and 3.5 models. These came into existence after the days of the Super Mutants, so I would presume there would be less variance on them than the 2, 3, 4 samples that could include very old models.

Randy used to use the analogy of uncalibrated barbell plates. Guys scoffed at that. I have a 45 lb plate that weighs 49 pounds, and one that weighs 44. These days, it seems like a valid analogy.

Seems to be valid?

It's where all this comes from: after I used that analogy, a wanabe who announced he was "going to piss in IronMind's Cheerios" then decided he'd make "calibrated" grippers. When he failed to even make reasonably accurate grippers, he then started to "calibrate" grippers for guys, a philosophy that lives on in the form of RGC numbers.

Yes, grippers vary and yes, how much they vary depends on the brand—for some brands, it's all over the board, and for others—as we've now said for decades at IronMInd—it's probably less than the weights you (don't) lift.

The only problem with statistics is that you have to understand the data that's being analyzed and how that's being done—so, in the case of IronMind grippers, it might be like taking 0-60 times for Corvettes built from 1990 to 2012, and reporting a bunch of summary descriptive statistics on them (any measures of central tendency and variation you might prefer); and while it might impress some, what you really have is a bunch of meaningless summary indices. IronMind, with the longest continuous production history of the grippers most likely being considered here and probably the most out in the market, is most susceptible to this sort of analytical error, but now that you know how this works, there's little excuse for any continued misunderstanding of this point. The CoC book explains some of this stuff in greater detail if anyone wants to read more about it.

[Randall Strossen]

"Randy used to use the analogy of uncalibrated barbell plates. Guys scoffed at that. I have a 45 lb plate that weighs 49 pounds, and one that weighs 44. These days, it seems like a valid analogy.

I don't think this was the case (the scoffing part). I think it was more like agreement (I myself agreed that was very valid) when he said this the first time. If anyone has a really old IM catalog in the 90's it would be interesting to see the wording used about the #3. I don't remember what it was exactly but I am pretty sure it was not along these lines.

I found my oldest catalog, 1999, it may have been the first time the analogy was used, but it was there. It was a Q and A, in answer to a friend of the writer's older gripper feeling harder than a current one.A few months before then, I remember commenting to my brother that I found some variances in a couple of number 2s, and he encouraged me to contact IronMind. I didn't. But, I think that catalog may have been the first time the subject was addressed to the Public at large, because it was a partial answer to what I was wondering, and I don't think I had seen it addressed in the earlier catalog (my first one was from 1998 and I didn't save that one). Looking back at what was written, 13 years later, it reads well.

I was referring to early 90's. Maybe Randy has a copy but the wording had quite the opposite tone (I think).

Sorry, but what's the exact question? I'd be happy to look it up when I get back to the office (I'm in Turkey right now).

[brujeria]

CoC´s do not vary, do not "season" even a little bit. There is no need for "left handed" CoC because force needed for close is same when using left/right hand(99.9% just have stronger crush on right hand). Your hand/fingers aren´t more sensitive than your thighs and glutes. Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

If you have an RGC and have rated a bunch of grippers you'd know that your statement about COCs not varying and not seasoning is false. Remember that just because we're saying they DO vary and DO season a bit it doesn't mean that we're knocking them necessarily. All grippers vary and all brands season at least a little bit. Some of them much more than others.

did you notice that I just wrote what stands on IM webpage

I am happy to own #3 at 150.1lbs (3.00) and #3.5 179.95 lbs rated exact 3.50.

I just fill the gaps with other brands that do vary, and can say that it is not just one or two grippers that fall between 3 and 3.5

Edit: of course CoC´s vary, but because IM does say they won´t, I own just one of each CoC´s.

Good thing I didn't say it was only one or two grippers that fall between the #3 and the #3.5. I've closed a bunch of grippers since 2000 and have owned many different brands too. They all have something to offer. Some are crappy quality. Those are the ones that I don't mind throwing in a bag and taking with me on vacation. If they get stole, so what! My higher quality ones I still like to take on vacation but I would be a bit upset if they got stolen.

Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

Then why are you even taking the time to have a friendly argument about this topic that you obviously know so much about when you could be using this time for training? Better get to it!

"Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training" also from IM homepage

[Hubgeezer]

Randy used to use the analogy of uncalibrated barbell plates. Guys scoffed at that. I have a 45 lb plate that weighs 49 pounds, and one that weighs 44. These days, it seems like a valid analogy.

Seems to be valid?

...and reporting a bunch of summary descriptive statistics on them (any measures of central tendency and variation you might prefer); and while it might impress some, what you really have is a bunch of meaningless summary indices. IronMind, with the longest continuous production history of the grippers most likely being considered here and probably the most out in the market, is most susceptible to this sort of analytical error, but now that you know how this works, there's little excuse for any continued misunderstanding of this point. The CoC book explains some of this stuff in greater detail if anyone wants to read more about it.

I used the Weasel Words "seems to be" for two reasons: 1) I am not a Scientist, and 2) If I said "is valid" (which I think it is a great analogy) then that would subject the statement to analysis by some in a passionate manner that is not going to change my mind and cause me to make caustic statments like "Big Deal", "So What?", "Are you a statistician?", etc.

[iamsean11]

Haha this topic cracks me up. I think we can assume that a conclusion has been reached.

...variance is everywhere.

[Hubgeezer]

Haha this topic cracks me up. I think we can assume that a conclusion has been reached.

...variance is everywhere.

Most of us can tell the diiference between Identical Twins we grew up with, yes.

[jad]

I presume the guys posting know this, maybe a lot of readers do not, but Wade's website has a nifty gadget on it where you key in the brand, the model, and push the button, and...you get the lowest number, the highest number, the mean, the sample size and the standard deviation for that make and model of gripper.

The FInnish website probably has the largest sample of grippers measured.

All grippers vary. I think both of these sources will tell you that IronMind vary the least, and RB vary the most (I am not including HGs). What I have never checked out before is the 1.5, 2.5, and 3.5 models. These came into existence after the days of the Super Mutants, so I would presume there would be less variance on them than the 2, 3, 4 samples that could include very old models.

Randy used to use the analogy of uncalibrated barbell plates. Guys scoffed at that. I have a 45 lb plate that weighs 49 pounds, and one that weighs 44. These days, it seems like a valid analogy.

Seems to be valid?

It's where all this comes from: after I used that analogy, a wanabe who announced he was "going to piss in IronMind's Cheerios" then decided he'd make "calibrated" grippers. When he failed to even make reasonably accurate grippers, he then started to "calibrate" grippers for guys, a philosophy that lives on in the form of RGC numbers.

Yes, grippers vary and yes, how much they vary depends on the brand—for some brands, it's all over the board, and for others—as we've now said for decades at IronMInd—it's probably less than the weights you (don't) lift.

The only problem with statistics is that you have to understand the data that's being analyzed and how that's being done—so, in the case of IronMind grippers, it might be like taking 0-60 times for Corvettes built from 1990 to 2012, and reporting a bunch of summary descriptive statistics on them (any measures of central tendency and variation you might prefer); and while it might impress some, what you really have is a bunch of meaningless summary indices. IronMind, with the longest continuous production history of the grippers most likely being considered here and probably the most out in the market, is most susceptible to this sort of analytical error, but now that you know how this works, there's little excuse for any continued misunderstanding of this point. The CoC book explains some of this stuff in greater detail if anyone wants to read more about it.

I had no idea this was an actual quote! I heard a gripster one time comment something like "no wonder Strossen gets pissed and acts like somebody pissed in his cheerios". I just assumed it was him being the colorful talker he is

[bencrush]

"Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training" also from IM homepage

Ben Edwards is an official COC #3 - also from IM homepage

Not bad for a guy who does so much typing, eh! Maybe it gives me strength debating with guys like you.

[Alawadhi]

Do grippers vary? Yes they do. Every brand varies? Yes too.

[Bill Piche]

"Randy used to use the analogy of uncalibrated barbell plates. Guys scoffed at that. I have a 45 lb plate that weighs 49 pounds, and one that weighs 44. These days, it seems like a valid analogy.

I don't think this was the case (the scoffing part). I think it was more like agreement (I myself agreed that was very valid) when he said this the first time. If anyone has a really old IM catalog in the 90's it would be interesting to see the wording used about the #3. I don't remember what it was exactly but I am pretty sure it was not along these lines.

I found my oldest catalog, 1999, it may have been the first time the analogy was used, but it was there. It was a Q and A, in answer to a friend of the writer's older gripper feeling harder than a current one.A few months before then, I remember commenting to my brother that I found some variances in a couple of number 2s, and he encouraged me to contact IronMind. I didn't. But, I think that catalog may have been the first time the subject was addressed to the Public at large, because it was a partial answer to what I was wondering, and I don't think I had seen it addressed in the earlier catalog (my first one was from 1998 and I didn't save that one). Looking back at what was written, 13 years later, it reads well.

I was referring to early 90's. Maybe Randy has a copy but the wording had quite the opposite tone (I think).

Sorry, but what's the exact question? I'd be happy to look it up when I get back to the office (I'm in Turkey right now).

In the older IronMind catalogs I think the #3 was put on a pedestal specifically as a gripper. Like it was special. I don't remember the wording and my memory is too murky on it. I was wondering about the odd posting times...I was like what the heck...I thought you were a vampire out in California or something given how early in the morning California time it would be.

[brujeria]

"Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training" also from IM homepage

Ben Edwards is an official COC #3 - also from IM homepage

Not bad for a guy who does so much typing, eh! Maybe it gives me strength debating with guys like you.

You propably didn´t get THE point from my posts

[Randall Strossen]

"Randy used to use the analogy of uncalibrated barbell plates. Guys scoffed at that. I have a 45 lb plate that weighs 49 pounds, and one that weighs 44. These days, it seems like a valid analogy.

I don't think this was the case (the scoffing part). I think it was more like agreement (I myself agreed that was very valid) when he said this the first time. If anyone has a really old IM catalog in the 90's it would be interesting to see the wording used about the #3. I don't remember what it was exactly but I am pretty sure it was not along these lines.

I found my oldest catalog, 1999, it may have been the first time the analogy was used, but it was there. It was a Q and A, in answer to a friend of the writer's older gripper feeling harder than a current one.A few months before then, I remember commenting to my brother that I found some variances in a couple of number 2s, and he encouraged me to contact IronMind. I didn't. But, I think that catalog may have been the first time the subject was addressed to the Public at large, because it was a partial answer to what I was wondering, and I don't think I had seen it addressed in the earlier catalog (my first one was from 1998 and I didn't save that one). Looking back at what was written, 13 years later, it reads well.

I was referring to early 90's. Maybe Randy has a copy but the wording had quite the opposite tone (I think).

Sorry, but what's the exact question? I'd be happy to look it up when I get back to the office (I'm in Turkey right now).

In the older IronMind catalogs I think the #3 was put on a pedestal specifically as a gripper. Like it was special. I don't remember the wording and my memory is too murky on it. I was wondering about the odd posting times...I was like what the heck...I thought you were a vampire out in California or something given how early in the morning California time it would be.

I wonder if this might be what you are remembering (and I'm flattered that you do!): along with that uncalibrated plate analogy we explained that we watched the No. 3 especially closely even back in those early days—you might remember that when IronMind first started selling grippers, although really good, they had not yet come close the consistency level we've reached over the years. Because the No. 3 was such a well-known benchmark, though, it always got preferential treatment . . . hope that didn't foster sibling rivalry

[Randall Strossen]

CoC´s do not vary, do not "season" even a little bit. There is no need for "left handed" CoC because force needed for close is same when using left/right hand(99.9% just have stronger crush on right hand). Your hand/fingers aren´t more sensitive than your thighs and glutes. Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

Ouch! I was trying to calibrate where this was weighing in, but decided to think about training instead.

[Randall Strossen]

CoC´s do not vary, do not "season" even a little bit. There is no need for "left handed" CoC because force needed for close is same when using left/right hand(99.9% just have stronger crush on right hand). Your hand/fingers aren´t more sensitive than your thighs and glutes. Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

If you have an RGC and have rated a bunch of grippers you'd know that your statement about COCs not varying and not seasoning is false. Remember that just because we're saying they DO vary and DO season a bit it doesn't mean that we're knocking them necessarily. All grippers vary and all brands season at least a little bit. Some of them much more than others.

did you notice that I just wrote what stands on IM webpage

I am happy to own #3 at 150.1lbs (3.00) and #3.5 179.95 lbs rated exact 3.50.

I just fill the gaps with other brands that do vary, and can say that it is not just one or two grippers that fall between 3 and 3.5

Edit: of course CoC´s vary, but because IM does say they won´t, I own just one of each CoC´s.

Yes, that's right—I'd say save your money and only buy 1 CoC of each strength you need, but if you lean toward being obsessive-compulsive about these things, definitely buy a pile of them: they're cheaper by the dozen!

[Randall Strossen]

CoC´s do not vary, do not "season" even a little bit. There is no need for "left handed" CoC because force needed for close is same when using left/right hand(99.9% just have stronger crush on right hand). Your hand/fingers aren´t more sensitive than your thighs and glutes. Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

If you have an RGC and have rated a bunch of grippers you'd know that your statement about COCs not varying and not seasoning is false. Remember that just because we're saying they DO vary and DO season a bit it doesn't mean that we're knocking them necessarily. All grippers vary and all brands season at least a little bit. Some of them much more than others.

did you notice that I just wrote what stands on IM webpage

I am happy to own #3 at 150.1lbs (3.00) and #3.5 179.95 lbs rated exact 3.50.

I just fill the gaps with other brands that do vary, and can say that it is not just one or two grippers that fall between 3 and 3.5

Edit: of course CoC´s vary, but because IM does say they won´t, I own just one of each CoC´s.

Good thing I didn't say it was only one or two grippers that fall between the #3 and the #3.5. I've closed a bunch of grippers since 2000 and have owned many different brands too. They all have something to offer. Some are crappy quality. Those are the ones that I don't mind throwing in a bag and taking with me on vacation. If they get stole, so what! My higher quality ones I still like to take on vacation but I would be a bit upset if they got stolen.

Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

Then why are you even taking the time to have a friendly argument about this topic that you obviously know so much about when you could be using this time for training? Better get to it!

"Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training" also from IM homepage

Sounds like we've got the head of the IronMind fan club here, but seriously, I'm guessing that typing might be part of your active rest program, so that way you can type/talk/train at the same time, right?

[brujeria]

CoC´s do not vary, do not "season" even a little bit. There is no need for "left handed" CoC because force needed for close is same when using left/right hand(99.9% just have stronger crush on right hand). Your hand/fingers aren´t more sensitive than your thighs and glutes. Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

If you have an RGC and have rated a bunch of grippers you'd know that your statement about COCs not varying and not seasoning is false. Remember that just because we're saying they DO vary and DO season a bit it doesn't mean that we're knocking them necessarily. All grippers vary and all brands season at least a little bit. Some of them much more than others.

did you notice that I just wrote what stands on IM webpage

I am happy to own #3 at 150.1lbs (3.00) and #3.5 179.95 lbs rated exact 3.50.

I just fill the gaps with other brands that do vary, and can say that it is not just one or two grippers that fall between 3 and 3.5

Edit: of course CoC´s vary, but because IM does say they won´t, I own just one of each CoC´s.

Yes, that's right—I'd say save your money and only buy 1 CoC of each strength you need, but if you lean toward being obsessive-compulsive about these things, definitely buy a pile of them: they're cheaper by the dozen!

Luckily I am obsessed about something that is even more fun to grab on

[brujeria]

CoC´s do not vary, do not "season" even a little bit. There is no need for "left handed" CoC because force needed for close is same when using left/right hand(99.9% just have stronger crush on right hand). Your hand/fingers aren´t more sensitive than your thighs and glutes. Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

If you have an RGC and have rated a bunch of grippers you'd know that your statement about COCs not varying and not seasoning is false. Remember that just because we're saying they DO vary and DO season a bit it doesn't mean that we're knocking them necessarily. All grippers vary and all brands season at least a little bit. Some of them much more than others.

did you notice that I just wrote what stands on IM webpage

I am happy to own #3 at 150.1lbs (3.00) and #3.5 179.95 lbs rated exact 3.50.

I just fill the gaps with other brands that do vary, and can say that it is not just one or two grippers that fall between 3 and 3.5

Edit: of course CoC´s vary, but because IM does say they won´t, I own just one of each CoC´s.

Good thing I didn't say it was only one or two grippers that fall between the #3 and the #3.5. I've closed a bunch of grippers since 2000 and have owned many different brands too. They all have something to offer. Some are crappy quality. Those are the ones that I don't mind throwing in a bag and taking with me on vacation. If they get stole, so what! My higher quality ones I still like to take on vacation but I would be a bit upset if they got stolen.

Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training.

Then why are you even taking the time to have a friendly argument about this topic that you obviously know so much about when you could be using this time for training? Better get to it!

"Why all this is even discussed when we could use this time for training" also from IM homepage

Sounds like we've got the head of the IronMind fan club here, but seriously, I'm guessing that typing might be part of your active rest program, so that way you can type/talk/train at the same time, right?

wouldn´t say head of the fanclub, but definitely going to use my CoC´s, as other brands, to reach my goals on grippers Yep, definitely put blood flowing in index fingers