hellswindstaff Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 iamsean111... That was a pretty complex explanation. In chinese herbology you treat hot injuries (in this case inflammation) with coolness (anti-inflammatorys) and cool injuries (arthritis) with heating treatments (something that causes fluid, namely blood, to come to the localized area). Treating a hot injury, after the inflammation is gone, with ice (a cooling poultice) slows the healing process because the "cold" stagnates into the tissue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsean11 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 iamsean111... That was a pretty complex explanation. In chinese herbology you treat hot injuries (in this case inflammation) with coolness (anti-inflammatorys) and cool injuries (arthritis) with heating treatments (something that causes fluid, namely blood, to come to the localized area). Treating a hot injury, after the inflammation is gone, with ice (a cooling poultice) slows the healing process because the "cold" stagnates into the tissue. Haha sorry, I was studying all night and felt like rambling on about stuff. Inflammation is very complex, and I guess there is no way to simplify it, however, you sure gave an elegant reply. Chinese herbology is very fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba29 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 "Avoid using painkillers and NSAIDs such as ibuprofen and Tylenol for joint pain and tendon injuries because they will keep you from healing fully." "NSAIDs get in the way of long-term tendon and muscle repair because they reduce the activity of satellite cells to regenerate—these are the cells that rebuild the connective tissue that joins your muscle with the bone. NSAIDs have been shown to blunt the muscle hypertrophy response by as much as 50 to 75 percent in animals, and we know that they suppress protein synthesis following a single bout of exercise. " http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/1112/Tip-324-Avoid-Pain-Killers-and-NSAIDs-For-Joint-Pain-and-Tendon-Injuries.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaz Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Thanks guys. I have been taking Advil and Tylenol too much. I will cut it out. Is beer OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 beer is great. Wine works wonders for me. I just downed a liter of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsean11 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 beer is great. Wine works wonders for me. I just downed a liter of it. Hahaha are you buying it by the box? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I seriously feel less sore the next day if wine is consumed after a workout. Beer just makes me a better steel bender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickmeniru Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I seriously feel less sore the next day if wine is consumed after a workout. Beer just makes me a better steel bender. Someone with some better physiological knowledge than me might be able to correct/support me with this, but i seem to recall that alchohol dilates blood vessels, which could enable more blood flow to get through damaged areas, meaning that repair can occur more efficiently? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba29 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) I seriously feel less sore the next day if wine is consumed after a workout. Beer just makes me a better steel bender. Someone with some better physiological knowledge than me might be able to correct/support me with this, but i seem to recall that alchohol dilates blood vessels, which could enable more blood flow to get through damaged areas, meaning that repair can occur more efficiently? Just a thought. i have been on vacation this week with much alcohol consumed. my joints feel ok but i am feeling weak. hopefully the alcohol isn't negating my rest. Edited April 12, 2012 by bubba29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 beer is great. Wine works wonders for me. I just downed a liter of it. Hahaha are you buying it by the box? I buy those 1.5 liter bottles. The double sized ones. I'm a large guy so that's how I roll. It didn't make it through the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsean11 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 beer is great. Wine works wonders for me. I just downed a liter of it. Hahaha are you buying it by the box? I buy those 1.5 liter bottles. The double sized ones. I'm a large guy so that's how I roll. It didn't make it through the night. Haha that's funny. Hey don't you brew your own beer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 beer is great. Wine works wonders for me. I just downed a liter of it. Hahaha are you buying it by the box? I buy those 1.5 liter bottles. The double sized ones. I'm a large guy so that's how I roll. It didn't make it through the night. Haha that's funny. Hey don't you brew your own beer? Nah, we make our own wine though. We do all the stereotypical Italian stuff. Tomato garden, make sausage, prosciutto etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdckr Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 "Avoid using painkillers and NSAIDs such as ibuprofen and Tylenol for joint pain and tendon injuries because they will keep you from healing fully." "NSAIDs get in the way of long-term tendon and muscle repair because they reduce the activity of satellite cells to regenerate—these are the cells that rebuild the connective tissue that joins your muscle with the bone. NSAIDs have been shown to blunt the muscle hypertrophy response by as much as 50 to 75 percent in animals, and we know that they suppress protein synthesis following a single bout of exercise. " http://www.charlespo...n-Injuries.aspx Absolutely true. From the British Journal of Sports Medicine: ... NSAIDs also delay healing of acute ligament, muscle and tendon injuries.16171819 with the references: 16 Indomethacin and Celecoxib Impair Rotator Cuff Tendon-to-Bone Healing (not ibuprofen/advil, but both are nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories [NSAIDs]) 17 The Effects of Common Anti-Inflammatory Drugs on the Healing Rat Patellar Tendon 19 Low-Intensity Pulsed Ultrasound Accelerates and a Nonsteroidal Anti-inflammatory Drug Delays Knee Ligament Healing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I seriously feel less sore the next day if wine is consumed after a workout. Beer just makes me a better steel bender. Someone with some better physiological knowledge than me might be able to correct/support me with this, but i seem to recall that alchohol dilates blood vessels, which could enable more blood flow to get through damaged areas, meaning that repair can occur more efficiently? Just a thought. Iamsean111 could probably correct me if I am wrong but I believe that alcohol only dialates the local area, but it will increase global inflammation. So for instance... you're hanging out with your 'bros' then you guys get wasted because you're a 21 year old American and pissed at the world then inflammation levels throughout your entire body will increase. However, if you take a bottle of vodka, saturate your hands with it, then massage it in then if will increase bloodflow to the area. This goes back into what I was talking about earlier... that alcohol is 'warming' so if an area is 'warmed' that is already 'hot' then you are sending more fluid to an area that already has an excess amount of fluids (an inflammed area). However, if the areas inflammation has already gone down but now just needs nutrients and to be revitalized then it would speed up recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsean11 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) I seriously feel less sore the next day if wine is consumed after a workout. Beer just makes me a better steel bender. Someone with some better physiological knowledge than me might be able to correct/support me with this, but i seem to recall that alchohol dilates blood vessels, which could enable more blood flow to get through damaged areas, meaning that repair can occur more efficiently? Just a thought. Iamsean111 could probably correct me if I am wrong but I believe that alcohol only dialates the local area, but it will increase global inflammation. So for instance... you're hanging out with your 'bros' then you guys get wasted because you're a 21 year old American and pissed at the world then inflammation levels throughout your entire body will increase. However, if you take a bottle of vodka, saturate your hands with it, then massage it in then if will increase bloodflow to the area. This goes back into what I was talking about earlier... that alcohol is 'warming' so if an area is 'warmed' that is already 'hot' then you are sending more fluid to an area that already has an excess amount of fluids (an inflammed area). However, if the areas inflammation has already gone down but now just needs nutrients and to be revitalized then it would speed up recovery. It depends on the amount consumed. In low doses, alcohol is a vasodilator. If you get drunk, then at that level it will become a vasoconstrictor. More or less, stimulants, such as caffeine, act as vasoconstrictors, and depressants usually are classified as vasodilators. This isn't absolute, and there are many exceptions, but this can atleast give you an idea how it works. One example is caffeine, which is a vasoconstrictor, because it actually constricts blood vessels in the brain, occupies certain receptor sites, and 'stimulates' a release of adrenal fluid from the pituitary system. The released hormones signal a bunch of other reactions and the outcome is adrenaline, so you get a moderate rush of energy all from simple caffeine. AND, this is a performance enhancing drug for obvious reasons. Sean Oh yeah, side note. I mentioned this once before, but consuming alcohol during workouts or during a recovery period is actually detrimental to recovery. Alcohol is a toxin. It causes localized muscle inflammation if you previously worked out, limits the digestive tracts' ability to absorb vitamins, prevents the development of cytokines and their ability to do work, limits organo groups from reacting to the anabolic signaling molecules in muscle tissue, etc etc etc... I really love wine and a good IPA, but I have drastically cut back on casual drinking because it is literally like working out then starving your muscles. Ultimately, there will be more catabolism of the tissue that was just worked, and a reduction of anabolism for a lengthy period until all the destructive toxins have left the body. The big picture is that you dont get stronger from working out, you get stronger from recovery, and if that recovery period is compromised, then progress will be halted or reversed. Edited April 13, 2012 by iamsean11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Wow that's really interesting... I only new that caffeine drained the adrenals, but I had no idea why. Fascinating. I was formerly caffeine-free but have began drinking a lot of green tea lately... about 1/4 gallon daily (leached by water not extracted with hot water). The caffeine ratio in coffee to green tea is something like 3-to-1 so that would be what equivalent to 2(???) cups of coffee a day. I wonder which method better releases the caffiene though; hot water extraction or leaching? Maybe I'll rethink the amount of tea that Im drinking. Perhaps I'm wrong but I do believe that High proof alcohol can also kill the enzymatic activity happening in your digestive tract, which is something that the general American public desperately need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaz Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I seriously feel less sore the next day if wine is consumed after a workout. Beer just makes me a better steel bender. Someone with some better physiological knowledge than me might be able to correct/support me with this, but i seem to recall that alchohol dilates blood vessels, which could enable more blood flow to get through damaged areas, meaning that repair can occur more efficiently? Just a thought. Iamsean111 could probably correct me if I am wrong but I believe that alcohol only dialates the local area, but it will increase global inflammation. So for instance... you're hanging out with your 'bros' then you guys get wasted because you're a 21 year old American and pissed at the world then inflammation levels throughout your entire body will increase. However, if you take a bottle of vodka, saturate your hands with it, then massage it in then if will increase bloodflow to the area. This goes back into what I was talking about earlier... that alcohol is 'warming' so if an area is 'warmed' that is already 'hot' then you are sending more fluid to an area that already has an excess amount of fluids (an inflammed area). However, if the areas inflammation has already gone down but now just needs nutrients and to be revitalized then it would speed up recovery. It depends on the amount consumed. In low doses, alcohol is a vasodilator. If you get drunk, then at that level it will become a vasoconstrictor. More or less, stimulants, such as caffeine, act as vasoconstrictors, and depressants usually are classified as vasodilators. This isn't absolute, and there are many exceptions, but this can atleast give you an idea how it works. One example is caffeine, which is a vasoconstrictor, because it actually constricts blood vessels in the brain, occupies certain receptor sites, and 'stimulates' a release of adrenal fluid from the pituitary system. The released hormones signal a bunch of other reactions and the outcome is adrenaline, so you get a moderate rush of energy all from simple caffeine. AND, this is a performance enhancing drug for obvious reasons. Sean Oh yeah, side note. I mentioned this once before, but consuming alcohol during workouts or during a recovery period is actually detrimental to recovery. Alcohol is a toxin. It causes localized muscle inflammation if you previously worked out, limits the digestive tracts' ability to absorb vitamins, prevents the development of cytokines and their ability to do work, limits organo groups from reacting to the anabolic signaling molecules in muscle tissue, etc etc etc... I really love wine and a good IPA, but I have drastically cut back on casual drinking because it is literally like working out then starving your muscles. Ultimately, there will be more catabolism of the tissue that was just worked, and a reduction of anabolism for a lengthy period until all the destructive toxins have left the body. The big picture is that you dont get stronger from working out, you get stronger from recovery, and if that recovery period is compromised, then progress will be halted or reversed. Man thanks for this. I really have to cut back on the beer on the weekends. I can kind of tell that I gain over the week and then have some fun with beer on the weekend and then It is back to the same place. Crud. I like IPAs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Just need moderation or occasional fun days. I can have one drink a day and no ill effects. It's when 3 or more go down that makes me feel that the week is a lost cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alawadhi Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Guys what about Flexamin? I used to use it when i get shoulder pain. Is that a good idea or i wont like that fully recover whatever of pain i have in my shoulder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I know this is an old thread but... if you massage perpendicular to the tendons, then it more directly targets the tendons and increases bloodflow moreso than parallel to the tendons... Personally though I like cold baths/ showers. Here is why: "When the body is given brief (one to two minute) exposures to cold water, the blood vessels near the skin contract to send blood towards the core of the body to conserve body heat as a survival mechanism. In many people, the capillaries deep inside the body are not functioning well because of poor circulation and an unhealthy lifestyle. This exposure to cold has the effect of causing regeneratio...n of these capillaries. This greater capillary circulation increases health by improving blood supply to internal organs. Tempering the body with cold water therapy increases the rate of metabolism. It helps to purge free radicals, heavy metals and a variety of toxins. It also dramatically strengthens immunity. " 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba29 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I know this is an old thread but... if you massage perpendicular to the tendons, then it more directly targets the tendons and increases bloodflow moreso than parallel to the tendons... Personally though I like cold baths/ showers. Here is why: "When the body is given brief (one to two minute) exposures to cold water, the blood vessels near the skin contract to send blood towards the core of the body to conserve body heat as a survival mechanism. In many people, the capillaries deep inside the body are not functioning well because of poor circulation and an unhealthy lifestyle. This exposure to cold has the effect of causing regeneratio...n of these capillaries. This greater capillary circulation increases health by improving blood supply to internal organs. Tempering the body with cold water therapy increases the rate of metabolism. It helps to purge free radicals, heavy metals and a variety of toxins. It also dramatically strengthens immunity. " i have been doing these for a while now. not sure what the effect has been quite honestly. i have been able to stay healthy, strong, and lean but am not sure if the cold exposure has had anything to do with it. i can't rule it out though. i did a blog post on this. http://escapetheherdblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/what-doesnt-kill-me.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Two things are for sure... 1) You wake the $*%^ up 2) Your balls shrink 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel reinard Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 ^ LMAO I just read an article on post workout recovery and ice baths were one, but they said it takes like 10 minutes of being submerged to trigger a proper bodily response. I forget the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellswindstaff Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I know this is an old thread but... if you massage perpendicular to the tendons, then it more directly targets the tendons and increases bloodflow moreso than parallel to the tendons... Personally though I like cold baths/ showers. Here is why: "When the body is given brief (one to two minute) exposures to cold water, the blood vessels near the skin contract to send blood towards the core of the body to conserve body heat as a survival mechanism. In many people, the capillaries deep inside the body are not functioning well because of poor circulation and an unhealthy lifestyle. This exposure to cold has the effect of causing regeneratio...n of these capillaries. This greater capillary circulation increases health by improving blood supply to internal organs. Tempering the body with cold water therapy increases the rate of metabolism. It helps to purge free radicals, heavy metals and a variety of toxins. It also dramatically strengthens immunity. " i have been doing these for a while now. not sure what the effect has been quite honestly. i have been able to stay healthy, strong, and lean but am not sure if the cold exposure has had anything to do with it. i can't rule it out though. i did a blog post on this. http://escapetheherd...nt-kill-me.html Was that a polar bear club? Those rule... though I live too far down south to participate more than once a year :/. Last year during a snow storm my friend and I went outside and played in the snow. Only I wasn't wearing shoes or a coat... pretty much ruled. Also, in regards to the immune response. My girlfriend is an asthmatic, pretty bad during the spring due to the heavy pollen, but during the winter it 'mysteriously' vanishes because she takes cold showers and tempers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwwm Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Magnesium chloride spray seems to be helping me with recovery lately for the other stuff I do. Ice for the hands after grip is now a ritual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.