The Natural Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Ok I wanna chime in, don't beat me up though. I've been squatting for 20 years, never broke any records and never tried and only went to a couple comps in my life. My question is what's all the hub bub with the special shoes and depth? The reasons for the increased popularity of Oly shoes for squatting and deep squats are numerous 1) Despite claiming that they understand what parallel is, many (most?) powerlifters actually do not squat to parallel. Furthermore, most people on the Internet who post squat videos do not squat to parallel even though they think they do. 2) Strength athletes are fed up with this situation, and are reviving the deep squat, which is superior to the questionable powerlifting squat in terms of training effect, aesthetics, and credibility. 3) Olympic lifting shoes help one go deeper when using an athletic stance, not the stance that Westside and others have custom-made for the sport of powerlifting, which frequently no longer tests for strength in any credible way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcpower66 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) Well stated Rex. Mike: Be careful using the curl rack for squats. The big guys at the gym will get upset with you. Rex again: Is there any advantage to oly shoes for DL? I know there is an obvious issue with the height of the heel creating a bit of a deficit to pull from, but is is cancelled out by some advantage I don't know about? Edited February 7, 2010 by bcpower66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) Ok I wanna chime in, don't beat me up though. I've been squatting for 20 years, never broke any records and never tried and only went to a couple comps in my life. My question is what's all the hub bub with the special shoes and depth? The reasons for the increased popularity of Oly shoes for squatting and deep squats are numerous 1) Despite claiming that they understand what parallel is, many (most?) powerlifters actually do not squat to parallel. Furthermore, most people on the Internet who post squat videos do not squat to parallel even though they think they do. 2) Strength athletes are fed up with this situation, and are reviving the deep squat, which is superior to the questionable powerlifting squat in terms of training effect, aesthetics, and credibility. 3) Olympic lifting shoes help one go deeper when using an athletic stance, not the stance that Westside and others have custom-made for the sport of powerlifting, which frequently no longer tests for strength in any credible way. Thanks Rex. I had thought it was a bodybuilding thing since all the bodybuilders would put a 2x4 under their heels at my old gym. Also I thought the west side stance was very different something I didn't want to try, I just felt it wasent for me. Rico Mike Did you try out my streching advice to find your sweet spot at the bottom? Rico Edited February 7, 2010 by rico300zx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Squatting tomorrow Rico. I'll give it a try before i squat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwdutton Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Ok I wanna chime in, don't beat me up though. I've been squatting for 20 years, never broke any records and never tried and only went to a couple comps in my life. My question is what's all the hub bub with the special shoes and depth? The reasons for the increased popularity of Oly shoes for squatting and deep squats are numerous 1) Despite claiming that they understand what parallel is, many (most?) powerlifters actually do not squat to parallel. Furthermore, most people on the Internet who post squat videos do not squat to parallel even though they think they do. 2) Strength athletes are fed up with this situation, and are reviving the deep squat, which is superior to the questionable powerlifting squat in terms of training effect, aesthetics, and credibility. 3) Olympic lifting shoes help one go deeper when using an athletic stance, not the stance that Westside and others have custom-made for the sport of powerlifting, which frequently no longer tests for strength in any credible way. Thanks Rex. I had thought it was a bodybuilding thing since all the bodybuilders would put a 2x4 under their heels at my old gym. Also I thought the west side stance was very different something I didn't want to try, I just felt it wasent for me. Rico Mike Did you try out my streching advice to find your sweet spot at the bottom? Rico Rico, I don't really understand what you're asking? Would there be anyway for yourself to put this on a video and show some of us please? Thanks a bunch, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Ok ill do I right now and upload it tonight Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwdutton Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Ok ill do I right now and upload it tonight Rico NICE!! Thanks a bunch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Mike and Chris, heres my vid youll think its lame but here you go anyway, i think i may have used to much weight to really do the hokie pokie down there but mabey you can use this to study my form and see how i break and go down and all, who knows you guys may rip me a new hole, i gotta remember Rex reads this thread too and hes an expert in squatting and may say im a joke which i may be, but hey at least ill laugh along. But any way this is what ive come too know as a squat unless im doing box squats which i like as well, tell me what you think of my form and if it can work for you. rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Thanks Rico. You're definitely a chit ton stronger than me & a lot more flexible. If I bounced around like that at the bottom with 315, I would never get out of the hole, plus things would go pop, snap, pow. I'd have ligaments and tendons popping out all over the place like a matress with bad springs. Good stuff. You definitely get deep enough. I'll keep working on it. More squats tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Thanks Rico. You're definitely a chit ton stronger than me & a lot more flexible. If I bounced around like that at the bottom with 315, I would never get out of the hole, plus things would go pop, snap, pow. I'd have ligaments and tendons popping out all over the place like a matress with bad springs. Good stuff. You definitely get deep enough. I'll keep working on it. More squats tomorrow. Mike. you don't have to use that weight but use something you can pull out of, but yet something that will force you down into that hole once you find your sweet spot as I noted yesterday. Also hold your palms flat on the ground with stiff legs when you do your mobility routine that is good as well. Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwdutton Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Mike and Chris, heres my vid youll think its lame but here you go anyway, i think i may have used to much weight to really do the hokie pokie down there but mabey you can use this to study my form and see how i break and go down and all, who knows you guys may rip me a new hole, i gotta remember Rex reads this thread too and hes an expert in squatting and may say im a joke which i may be, but hey at least ill laugh along. But any way this is what ive come too know as a squat unless im doing box squats which i like as well, tell me what you think of my form and if it can work for you. rico Rico, I see your point. As It is a very valid one, do you really recommend Mike try this without a power rack? I can see some rookie,etc looking at this and flying forward as he bounces(and does the hokey pokey flat on his melon). I do agree it's a good strategy for getting the correct position,etc. I personally can't do that either due to acl damage in both knees and arthro surgeries. Thanks for the input as I was curious what the heck you were talking about bouncing and "moving parts" around! hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Mike and Chris, heres my vid youll think its lame but here you go anyway, i think i may have used to much weight to really do the hokie pokie down there but mabey you can use this to study my form and see how i break and go down and all, who knows you guys may rip me a new hole, i gotta remember Rex reads this thread too and hes an expert in squatting and may say im a joke which i may be, but hey at least ill laugh along. But any way this is what ive come too know as a squat unless im doing box squats which i like as well, tell me what you think of my form and if it can work for you. rico Rico, I see your point. As It is a very valid one, do you really recommend Mike try this without a power rack? I can see some rookie,etc looking at this and flying forward as he bounces(and does the hokey pokey flat on his melon). I do agree it's a good strategy for getting the correct position,etc. I personally can't do that either due to acl damage in both knees and arthro surgeries. Thanks for the input as I was curious what the heck you were talking about bouncing and "moving parts" around! hahaha Mike and Chris I know what your saying I actually just made all that stuff up wile trying to think of a way to help Mike, (I've been doing it to him since the beginning of the thread, cause I never really thought about explaining squats so much) ya know but its something that works, since I feel it will force you into a squat hole where you need to be. I didn't mean for some newbe to do this at home, although someone will probally be chimeing in about their broken nose cause of me, anyway they have $2000 curling racks at Golds... (right Mike ) When I think of back squats and its my opinion, I feel your not really bouncing on your knees at all and I've never had a sore knee and never used a wrap either. I figure your bouncing on your butt and your haunches and hamstrings, right? Those r your your squat muscles. the rest hold your form and balance you and make funny faces I guess. No fancy shoes either, and their old boots from walmart that have holes in the bottom so I couldn't where em outside anymore. Actually I would think those oly ones would make me want to tip forward? But I never tried them either so I can't knock them. Oh well see what happens, try to make every rep into that hole. If you can't its to heavy for you and your not ready for it, you need to be there to get the most if you want your squats to help your grip, Mike you want to clean and press that blob right? Or get revenge on that MM3 right? Get in that hole and dig deep private! Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Rico your definetly a strong dude, I'm trying (slowly succeding) to teach my younger cousin the squat. His problems are Similar to Mike's although much worse (knees to far out, heels lifting, losing balance at the bottom etc) Iv'e been squatting 25 years and I can see what he's doing wrong but am struggling to put into words how to correct it or show him, I think what your saying although slightly unconventional may help so I'll give it a go with him next session although I certainly wont be putting 300lb on the bar while I demo it lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 After shoveling snow for an hour, I did some more squats tday. Just worked on getting back further and depth with 225. Put my orthotics in and they seemed to help a lot with the balance issues. I got used to wearing them with my boots and they made me feel more in control of the weight. Knees weren't tracking as far over the toes either. Deeper? Better? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIq7Qx9gIts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 After shoveling snow for an hour, I did some more squats tday. Just worked on getting back further and depth with 225. Put my orthotics in and they seemed to help a lot with the balance issues. I got used to wearing them with my boots and they made me feel more in control of the weight. Knees weren't tracking as far over the toes either. Deeper? Better? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIq7Qx9gIts hey Mike your looking nice and deep there. still looks like your hunchin over a bit still, keep the shoulders back as far as you can, push em back so the bar wants to roll off your back and you have to hold it there. lookin pretty good though rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Thanks Rico. I bounced around with 135 a little like you suggested. Didn't push it since I wasn't in a rack. I'm still working on my upper back flexibility. But it is getting a little better with the shoulder dislocations and mobility exercises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Thanks Rico. I bounced around with 135 a little like you suggested. Didn't push it since I wasn't in a rack. I'm still working on my upper back flexibility. But it is getting a little better with the shoulder dislocations and mobility exercises. Cool, I've been doin that band thing like Rex sugested the other day with 2 bungee cords myself. That may also be what's making you feel like you want to tip over just keep the weight back and the shoulders up when you do your bouncin tiger. It'll help straitin u out. If u keep hunchin over you'll put a lot of pressure on your erectors , maby too much, but it will also limit the amount of weight you'll be able to lift. Your doin well, your bigger and stronger than me Mike its nuthin but a peanut. Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcpower66 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Rico is right Mike, you are quite strong, so it really isn't the weight that you are struggling with. It is the position that your body is putting the weight in that you are straining against. In a linear push that you didn't have to stabilize (say like a smith machine), you would be piling the weight on. With squats, your inability to arch your thoracic spine and keep your chest up is throwing the weight in front of your center of gravity and pulling you forward. Of course, having said that, your last vid looks like your best effort yet to sit back. The first two reps there is no forward shifting of the weight at all. If you can get your torso a bit more upright and bear the weight down your spine a bit better, you won't be leaned so far forward as Rico pointed out. I used to get sick of hearing people tell me to sit back when squatting because it felt like if I was on my heels any more, I'd fall back. As I was able to get my chest out and shoulders back and down, it just felt more natural to be sitting back and it wasn't so much of a conscious effort. Loosen up those shoulders and scapulae big man, and reap the benefits! Brent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Thanks guys. I'll get it sooner or later. Sooner i hope! HAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcpower66 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 You've got it Mike, just a bit of tweaking here and there to make it perfect. As Rico said, I'm no pro either. Just a wealth of trial and error experience. Guys like Rex are the real deal when it comes to the big weights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico300zx Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 finally all the years of lookin at my cement wall really has taught me something. Thanks guys Parris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Haven't posted much on the board lately for a reason I won't go into here, but I wanted you guys to know I'm still working hard on the squats and have made some progress. Thanks again for everyone's help and advice. Here are the hilights from my last two workouts (bar weighs 55lbs): Back squat and Zerchers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PksYB-7ekQ4 Front Squats, box squats, and Romanian Deadlifts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvMW87Gvsp8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcpower66 Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Looks like you found some confidence in your back again Mike! 300 was a good looking squat, depth was good too. Good milestone to hit, you are on your way. Yes, after a week I was starting to get worried that you might be trapped under a bar in your house, good to see you are still alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullitt Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Looks like you found some confidence in your back again Mike! 300 was a good looking squat, depth was good too. Good milestone to hit, you are on your way. Yes, after a week I was starting to get worried that you might be trapped under a bar in your house, good to see you are still alive. HAHA Thanks Brent. Still kickin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANTHOS Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Keep up the good job Mike...You look strong bro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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