Conditioning The Hands - Starting In Thick Or Thin Wraps?

[luuc]

When I show someone how to bend they usually ask how thick the wraps should be. I tell them to use whatever they feel like training with. Some guys choose wraps that are about as thick as the IMP and others choose about 50% fatter pads. Consistently, the guys that have spent the majority of their training time with the fatter pads are the ones that make the best gains over time. It probably comes down to the fact that they can train more frequently with fatter pads than with thinner pads. Just like with any type of training there are so many paths to the goal. Some guys like taking a ride on the pain train and others have to use their hands to make a living. For guys that spend most of their day typing and writing, it's wise to go with thicker pads, IMO.

I think getting stronger is possible in both dimensions of wrapping, in thin pads, it is slower and a lot harder to make progress, that's for sure.

Luuc, are you still bending barehand by the way? You are probably your own best guinea pig at this point. You're certain that minimal-pad bending has helped your overall bending strength and I don't doubt you at all. I would say that the thicker-pad bending has done wonders for your overall strength too. 50-50? Who knows. I'd guess you don't care as long as the gains keep coming.

I have been doing a bit barehanded, but more singlewrap bending, can't do it frequently because it's my holiday, but school begins soon again, and I will try to be as dedicated to bending as a monk. And yes, thick pad bending did help me get stronger, but it did take me time and effort to get even a little bit used to thin wrapped bending.

It seems that many have the impression that the only way to get strong in bending is to use double pads. I make just as good gains while bending with thick pads as I do when bending with small pads.

Personally I think it's best to use both. Bend with single wraps and if your hands hurt, slapp on another pair of wraps.

But as a beginner I think it is important to start with the single wraps. I remember that my hands used to hurt down to the knuckles and bones during the first month. But I overdid it and bent stuff almost everyday smashing one PR after another pretty much everyday.

Nowadays I rarely have trouble doing kink isos with IMP's or smaller. It can hurt sometimes if I go overboard but it never hurt after a bending session, only during.

I can imagine that if I hade started with thick wraps and only bent with thick wraps. I would completely stay away from the small wraps. Heck I remember after my first 3-6 months I had a period where I always bent with big wraps and when I switched back to smaller wraps, I almost passed out from the pain. Felt like I was gonna break my fingers paticularly my index fingers.

If you ask me use both in training.

If you only bend with big wraps you will get strong but your hands fingers and wrists get girly

I've had a similar problem, my eyes were bigger than my hands could handle, making it hard for myself.

It takes time and experience to get to know your ability's, you have been doing great in small wraps David, keep it up.

I'm a complete newbie to this stuff and I hadn't seen the earlier threads concerning thick vs. thin, so this has actually been beneficial to me and I appreciate everybody's feedback. Not that the opinion of a rank amateur like me matters much, but I'm going to give it anyway.

When I started bending, I couldn't bend anything DO because of my inflexible shoulders. The first thing I ever bent was a 60D reverse. Then I got one DU. Finally I was able to get one DO. Whenever I move up to a new PR piece of steel, I always use double wraps until I have mastered that particular hardness, then I switch to single pads until I can do it like that. I have now bent 60Ds, regular grade 1/4" bolts and 1/4" round stock at various lengths in single wraps. I think there are benefits to training both ways. When learning the techniques and moving to bigger steel for the first few times, it is a plus for me to use the thicker wraps so hand pain doesn't become the limiting factor. It also allows you to bend bigger stuff and build strength faster than using single wraps. That being said, dealing with the pain and building tendon, wrist and hand strength by using thin wraps is also a key part. To me they are complimentary.

It is very similar to the deadlift. In order to build all around strength, people need to lift with all three hand styles. DO to work the grip to it's max. Alternate hands to continue working grip but to tax the posterior chain with more weight than they can handle DO. Finally, for those guys that really want to develop the back and can handle even more weight (where grip is the limiting factor), there is nothing wrong with using straps occassionally to really kill everything and not be limited by the strength of their grip. (This is not saying that the goal shouldn't be to strengthen the grip as much as possible so it limits you to a lesser degree). Again, complimentary and similar to bare steel, thin wraps, and thick wraps.

I want to learn all styles and bend with varying degrees of padding. IMHO (and as a complete noob), I think there is room for both styles. And if you limit yourself to just one wrapping method, you might be limiting your overall gains you could achieve. It will obviously be different for everybody.

As an added note, I can't wait to be bending big steel in thin wraps and get on Eric's list, so Gazza please get on that list and set the bar high so I have a great goal to shoot for someday!

Smart post, keep it up this mentallity and you'll be great.

Show me the future of this thread, o crystal ball........

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_dWk9R7Z3dBM/SJEF...-chain-lock.jpg

Hope not, I think there is progress..

Bending has already gone down the slippery slope of no return you only have to look at ERICS new list to see that 95 percent of the benders on hewre dont want any part of it shown by the all the people that want to give it a go in the new rules and wraps etc i was going to send in some stuff for eric to calibrate to put on the lists but there is David and me who have bothered so whats the point.

Like i said bending has already gone past the point of no return and sad to say but in the next few years people will only see a certain type of bending controlled and dictated by the masses and i for one dont want a part of that.

I really don't see the point of this post... Luuc started a thread concerning the benefits of thick/thin wraps for beginners, and several different opinions/recommendations have been presented (with supporting arguments). Suddenly it turns into a negative, energy-draining rant about the sad state of today's bending. What does it have to do with the purpose of the thread?

Were is the RANT im just stateing some points bending and wraps are intertwined and the way people bend now and in the future will have an effect on how people bend .

Beginners come here and go on youtube these 2 places are the most popular places for bending so if they the beginners go to these to places to learn and see bending in bigger wraps by 90-95 percent then they are gonna follow the masses and ok it will get them bending but will it condition there hands.

Very sorry im so negative and energy sapping especially towards yourself just dont read anymore of my posts/threads in future then i wont have those affects on you.

Ive probably conditioned my hands for bending better than alot on here and i thought that might entitle me 2 explain my views on conditioning and bending in general bus i guesse not.

You do have the best conditioned hands Gazza, and you are (to me) the worlds greatest bender ever, and I think your extreme mentallity is for a lot of people a great source of inspiration. Thank you for always being here, and helping out everybody by posting in discussions no matter how many times you've tried to make your point.

Your point is true, there is more thick wrap bending to be found than otherwise, but all is not lost, your bends are timeless, just like the big bends from old time strongmen, you set an example which many people will try to duplicate. Thin wrap bending will always be a hardcore way to bend, and for these reasons it won't go away.

Thanks to everyone who has had input in this thread so far. It contains a lot of great information and will help many people, myself included.

+1

[gumpster]

I'm enjoying the discussion in this thread and all the comments really got me thinking about the Steel Slayer's wrap requirement. Referring to the wrap limit as "thin" is puzzling to me - you can fit a whole lot of wrap in a 1.25" hole. Have many of you tested out your favorite wraps just out of curiosity to see where they fall? The new rule requires a single wrap on each side so you can't use double wraps, but I rolled up my favorite set of doubles (a 4" x 9" inner suede piece from Tandy & a 4" x 12" outer suede piece from FBBC) and they fit in the 1.25" hole (no bar in the wraps remember). So, for the Steel Slayer's I cut 2 long pieces from my Tandy suede (roughly the same length as my double wraps combined). After a few "test bends" they'll be ready to go. To be honest, I don't think the wrap rule is going to limit the bend much at all...the 3 minute limit will be much more critical. Give me a bastard in 2" wraps and one month to do it and it still won't happen, so I'll be shooting for something quite a bit below that in difficulty. IMO the 1.25" wrap limit is very generous (maybe too generous) as it seems to lean a bit more toward what I would consider "fat" wraps than thin (IM wraps). I gain nothing from a switch to 1.5" wraps over 1.25". Maybe some of you know something I don't about how to get the most out of fat wraps. A drop to 1" from 1.25" would most likely cause me to adjust the difficulty of the bar I can bend but still be quite a bit more than my IM wrap limit.

I don't think the wraps are discouraging many from submitting bends. I believe getting a single wrap they are comfortable with, finding a pipe or device to show the wrap measurement, acquiring challenging stock they can bend in the time limit, and the hassle of sending bars to Eric for calibration are bigger issues. I think it's a good thing that the rules are more strict. I plan to give both a 6" & 7" bend a shot and send bars for calibration. I'm definitely not worthy of being listed on a list of top 20 bends but the opportunity to get on a fresh new list is tempting and I'm sure will motivate those who know they can bend something harder to give it their best shot. I could bend a coat hanger right now and be in 3rd place (after Eric calibrates it of course).

There has been some good discussion in this thread and I hope it continues.

[JAU1985]

I for one, as an aspiring bender hope this thread doesn't get locked because I love reading posts from guys like Ben and Gazza, I have no input personally but I am eagerly soaking up all of the information. Thanks to all who've posted so far.

[gazza]

Here is how i conditioned my hands specifically for bending.

I worked construction for 20 plus years so that gave me a great start and all my jobs since have been manual labour altho not as hand intensive as actually being a bricklayers mate[hod carrier].

The job i have now altho physical i have to were rubber gloves at all times being in the food industry this has an affect on my hands because they get sweaty and the sweat and moisture is contained in the gloves for long periods my hands have gone soft on the outside regarding skin wise but they are still tough underneath also the fact that i dont really bend anymore doesnt help either.

I was fortunate from the beginning when i entered my 1st comp at David Hornes an old guy called Ben Reid or Read[spelling] came along and gave a demonstration at age 69 he bent a few 60ds at the interval makeing them look super easy infact easier than anyone else made them look on the day this at 69 yrs old i took alot of information home with me from that ,that was my very 1st day of bending.

I have also been lucky enough to to be apard of the gboard bending from the earlier days when Pat,Big Steve,Greg and Dave,Mr.Black,Eric etc all these guys were the ones that people aspired to and all were useing small to medium wraps and all were at the time pushing the boundaries of bending so it was natural for me to try and follow those people and do it in a similar fashion.

Bending is now 10 times more popular than it was back then we even have are own bending Forum here on the gboard.

The dedicated bending forum plus the John Beattie and Eric lists have further populated bending helping it reach the masses which is a great thing as bending is a fantastic way to strengthen ones hands and body and also help build a very strong mindset.

Somewhere along the line Double wrapping etc was allowed and then thin became the majority not the minority and i will leave that at that cause i know it rubs people up the wrong way!

I mentioned that i was fortunate enough to be around bending when Pat and all the others were setting the boundaries and i naturally thought well thats how its done so i will try and follow suite.

Back then bending was a single wrap affair the rules were then changed because some people thought Eric and a few others were useing an unfair advantage by somehow being able to pull down on the ends of the bar with the wrapping i was useing a single piece of canvas about as thick as a single ironmind wrap and just as harsh.

Pat and David Horne then penned/changed the rules from useing a single piece of cloth/leather etc to useing 2 pieces this is how it is now.

At first people started useing a pair of small to medium wraps pat and the likes then others started useing more and more wrapping because they didnt have the hand conditioning of pat etc they took to useing bigger and thicker wraps to get around this "I WAS ALSO ONE OF THESE PEOPLE" you can see this on my youtube bend of me bending a grade 9 bolt lots of wrapping used which at the time was then considered the norm.

I started looking at myself and how i bent compared to others like pat etc and i didnt like what i saw so i started taking steps to correct my own deffiancies.

I started useing 3 sets of wraps a small,medium and large set and decided to bend daily as well as to bend useing DO,DU and Reverse styles as well as some barehanded stuff and along the way ive incorporated a few other bending styles.

I would often rotate my bending styles as well as the 3 sets of wraps so that i could work around tweaks and injuries and also to allow me to continue bending with no or little down time.

I will take alot of time to condition the hands and wrists etc to allow you to bend in reduced wrapping this will have a carry over to the bigger wraps because you can then use more wrist as well as upper body power.

Those starting off a few years will soon pass by without you noticeing it and you could from the start implemented ways to condition your hands which will help you become a better bender in the long run.

Like ive said thicker wraps do have there place in bending just like the smaller wraps do a wise man will learn to use both to help him become an all around better bender.

[foxyj75]

Here is how i conditioned my hands specifically for bending.

I worked construction for 20 plus years so that gave me a great start and all my jobs since have been manual labour altho not as hand intensive as actually being a bricklayers mate[hod carrier].

The job i have now altho physical i have to were rubber gloves at all times being in the food industry this has an affect on my hands because they get sweaty and the sweat and moisture is contained in the gloves for long periods my hands have gone soft on the outside regarding skin wise but they are still tough underneath also the fact that i dont really bend anymore doesnt help either.

I was fortunate from the beginning when i entered my 1st comp at David Hornes an old guy called Ben Reid or Read[spelling] came along and gave a demonstration at age 69 he bent a few 60ds at the interval makeing them look super easy infact easier than anyone else made them look on the day this at 69 yrs old i took alot of information home with me from that ,that was my very 1st day of bending.

I have also been lucky enough to to be apard of the gboard bending from the earlier days when Pat,Big Steve,Greg and Dave,Mr.Black,Eric etc all these guys were the ones that people aspired to and all were useing small to medium wraps and all were at the time pushing the boundaries of bending so it was natural for me to try and follow those people and do it in a similar fashion.

Bending is now 10 times more popular than it was back then we even have are own bending Forum here on the gboard.

The dedicated bending forum plus the John Beattie and Eric lists have further populated bending helping it reach the masses which is a great thing as bending is a fantastic way to strengthen ones hands and body and also help build a very strong mindset.

Somewhere along the line Double wrapping etc was allowed and then thin became the majority not the minority and i will leave that at that cause i know it rubs people up the wrong way!

I mentioned that i was fortunate enough to be around bending when Pat and all the others were setting the boundaries and i naturally thought well thats how its done so i will try and follow suite.

Back then bending was a single wrap affair the rules were then changed because some people thought Eric and a few others were useing an unfair advantage by somehow being able to pull down on the ends of the bar with the wrapping i was useing a single piece of canvas about as thick as a single ironmind wrap and just as harsh.

Pat and David Horne then penned/changed the rules from useing a single piece of cloth/leather etc to useing 2 pieces this is how it is now.

At first people started useing a pair of small to medium wraps pat and the likes then others started useing more and more wrapping because they didnt have the hand conditioning of pat etc they took to useing bigger and thicker wraps to get around this "I WAS ALSO ONE OF THESE PEOPLE" you can see this on my youtube bend of me bending a grade 9 bolt lots of wrapping used which at the time was then considered the norm.

I started looking at myself and how i bent compared to others like pat etc and i didnt like what i saw so i started taking steps to correct my own deffiancies.

I started useing 3 sets of wraps a small,medium and large set and decided to bend daily as well as to bend useing DO,DU and Reverse styles as well as some barehanded stuff and along the way ive incorporated a few other bending styles.

I would often rotate my bending styles as well as the 3 sets of wraps so that i could work around tweaks and injuries and also to allow me to continue bending with no or little down time.

I will take alot of time to condition the hands and wrists etc to allow you to bend in reduced wrapping this will have a carry over to the bigger wraps because you can then use more wrist as well as upper body power.

Those starting off a few years will soon pass by without you noticeing it and you could from the start implemented ways to condition your hands which will help you become a better bender in the long run.

Like ive said thicker wraps do have there place in bending just like the smaller wraps do a wise man will learn to use both to help him become an all around better bender.

Well said Gary!

[Paul Knight]

Adam and Josh

I thought you pair might have been all for a topic/thread to discuss ways of conditioning the hands whilst useing different wraps.

You are right in that there are no secrets but the majority of new benders people who dont have the luxury of one to one coaching that come on here or youtube etc and watch the majority of bending videos which are done in bigger wraps in a high DO style so they are at this point in time ignorant of alot of bending styles,wraps etc they think its the norm and go from there.

people also think that the top/elite benders etc have mystical powers or use secret training stategies when you and i both no that its just down to a few basic things like never giving in to pain,constantlly pushing your own boundaries and always seeing how far you can push your own "LIMITS" but like i said thats fine if the newbies etc are fortunite enough to get some coaching or pointers from you,or Ben or a friend etc but that still leaves a heck of alot to discover things for themselves and out of that maybe a handfull at the most will figure it out for themselves,the rest will come on here and on the tube and follow the masses.

Bending has already gone down the slippery slope of no return you only have to look at ERICS new list to see that 95 percent of the benders on hewre dont want any part of it shown by the all the people that want to give it a go in the new rules and wraps etc i was going to send in some stuff for eric to calibrate to put on the lists but there is David and me who have bothered so whats the point.

Like i said bending has already gone past the point of no return and sad to say but in the next few years people will only see a certain type of bending controlled and dictated by the masses and i for one dont want a part of that.

I disagree with the highlighted text ... It's simply more difficult to get on the list at this point because the steel has to be calibrated.

I believe the list will populate especially after the Steel Slayer Showdown ... I made one attempt at this list already w/a KOAB .. was able to take it past 90, but failed on the crush as I am feeling weaker in my chest from my weight loss, hopeing to complete one at the comp if the planets are aligned. Give it some time and we'll start to see more names on the list and when that happens, it will inspire more people to participate. I have no plans on quiting because of the new list and I really don't think other are going to quit because of it aswell - it's just slower because of the process you have to go through.

edit:

uh ... didn't read the second page of this thread ... guess it's already been discussed ... duh

Edited August 20, 2009 by Paul Knight

[Tim71]

I will simply address the original point of the thread and relay my own experiences.

When I started I had some really crappy leather that was glove - thin and very slippery on one side. Actually I take that back, my first bends were in a hand towel. I really got frustrated with the thinner leather and made very small gains with lots of pain but when I finally got the style down and got some tough 60ds in those small wraps (probably 9/16 inch thick around a nail wrapped kinds loose) I was happy. Finally maximus from England sent me some good leather and I had some wraps that were about 11/16 inch thick wrapped and weren't as slipper and I started doing even better but they were still thin enough that I didn't get out on the ends of the bar.

Only later did I stumble acrossed using thick pads and the folding effect it had and I got my first G5 bolt immediately.

Anyway, for me and that's all I can speak for, I feel that started with thinner pads helped teach me the technique and carried through much better.

A couple people I've helped start out locally, I've given them thinner pads to start with. Plus if you want to show off, it looks alot better to take 2 seconds to slap a small pad around each end then to have to take more effort and put on thicker pads.

I do use both now though. Simply put, I try to use just what I need for any given bend.

Braced bending is a different animal though I I have to use thicker pads for the tougher bends braced simply because it's so ultra hard on the hands.

Later,

Tim

[foxyj75]

Honestly, if I could go back in time, I would have continued bending in super small wraps like I did when I first started bending(in cut up welding glove leather and dish towels). I have recently put the fat wraps on the side lines and have been bending almost exclusively in really small singles and hankys using DU and Rev. styles. I know this might rub some people the wrong way, but it feels more legit this way. With what I am using, I have virtually no leverage to help me, so it's all wrist, forearm, and tendon strength. I am also very proud that my current best in super small leathers (maybe 1/2'' wrapped around a 5/16'' bar) is a hard Canadian 70d bent super strict reverse style. Just to show the advantage of fat wraps, my current best reverse in fat wraps is a 5.5'' 5/16'' O1 drill rod. I still will bend in big wraps just to try to kill bigger stuff, but I am enjoying the minimal padding benefits to my hands, wrists, and forearms. Just my $02. Later,

-Foxy

[bencrush]

Congrats Jeremiah! I don't think anyone here could be offended at what you said. Nothing offensive about any of it actually.

[gazza]

Honestly, if I could go back in time, I would have continued bending in super small wraps like I did when I first started bending(in cut up welding glove leather and dish towels). I have recently put the fat wraps on the side lines and have been bending almost exclusively in really small singles and hankys using DU and Rev. styles. I know this might rub some people the wrong way, but it feels more legit this way. With what I am using, I have virtually no leverage to help me, so it's all wrist, forearm, and tendon strength. I am also very proud that my current best in super small leathers (maybe 1/2'' wrapped around a 5/16'' bar) is a hard Canadian 70d bent super strict reverse style. Just to show the advantage of fat wraps, my current best reverse in fat wraps is a 5.5'' 5/16'' O1 drill rod. I still will bend in big wraps just to try to kill bigger stuff, but I am enjoying the minimal padding benefits to my hands, wrists, and forearms. Just my $02. Later,

-Foxy

Jeremiah

Thankyou very much now someone actually gets what its all about EG:-useing more wrists and ligaments etc and no leverage help i can now actually retire a happy man after thinking that all my bitching and moaning about certain ways to bend and why?

Glad to see that its had a positive affect on atleast someone so once again thankyou for that

[Darko]

Honestly, if I could go back in time, I would have continued bending in super small wraps like I did when I first started bending(in cut up welding glove leather and dish towels). I have recently put the fat wraps on the side lines and have been bending almost exclusively in really small singles and hankys using DU and Rev. styles. I know this might rub some people the wrong way, but it feels more legit this way. With what I am using, I have virtually no leverage to help me, so it's all wrist, forearm, and tendon strength. I am also very proud that my current best in super small leathers (maybe 1/2'' wrapped around a 5/16'' bar) is a hard Canadian 70d bent super strict reverse style. Just to show the advantage of fat wraps, my current best reverse in fat wraps is a 5.5'' 5/16'' O1 drill rod. I still will bend in big wraps just to try to kill bigger stuff, but I am enjoying the minimal padding benefits to my hands, wrists, and forearms. Just my $02. Later,

-Foxy

This is kinda the same thing i have been doing lately. After i bent the red-nail and kinked the bastard pretty bad (in double wraps) i felt that it wasnt "me" who did it. It was the thick wraps, folding, leverage etc. Now i bend in Reverse, DU and some heslep bends in super thin wraps. Even tho my best bend so far is 5" 1/4" CRS, i feel way better than when i did Red-nail with thick wraps.

-Peace.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Darko