Balanced Bending Ratios?

[ewokhugo]

whats sounds better?

-BIEW(bastard in every way) or to be capable to bend one grand shiny(DO), red nail(DO) and g5 (Reverse)?

i believe be good(by "good" i mean have balance)may be BIEW title.

This is an old quest ....most guys do DO or DU mainly but the other styles are "horrible"LOLLOL(me included).

If DO its the "favourite"/most used style should someone capable to bend one huge bastard(DO) try the same bend using DU and reverse style?

Edited August 8, 2009 by ewokhugo

[bencrush]

Good question, but I guess it all depends on what the person trains for. Those training for a contest would normally focus on the style that's being used in that particular contest.

The DO style just plain and simple has more potential for bigger bends than DU and reverse. Even if you factor Modified DU into the mix, 99% of us would have to use the DO crushdown style to crushdown anything really hard.

I'd guess that if we took a poll about max DO, DU, and Reverse bends - we'd see something like this:

-DO max: Huge Bastard

-DU max: 6" G8

-Reverse max: 6" G5

Depends on how much focus each bender puts on the separate styles too.

If all the BIEWs were polled, their DO bends will mostly be quite a bit higher than their Reverse and DU bends.

[bencrush]

My stats (only in Bastard stock) would be:

-DO: Mag Shiny (5")

-Modified DU: Fantastic Bastard (4")

-Traditional DU: Grand Bastard (5.5")

-Reverse: Bastard (7")

Mine are quite skewed, but that's partly due to the long-lasting tweak I sustained on my 2nd Reverse Bastard back in late 2007. If that hadn't happened I'm sure I would've bent at least a Huge Bastard Reverse.

The strength imbalances will also be slightly different - even on the same person - when comparing best bends at different lengths. My Modified DU bends felt stronger as the steel got shorter. Reverse was completely opposite. Anything under 6" felt super awkward to me when I bent Reverse.

My 7" stats on miscellaneous stock would be:

-DO: .348"X7" Drill Rod (O-1) *Notes: About 665lbs+ calibration.

-Modified DU: .332"X7" Drill Rod (O-1) *Notes: About 565lbs calibration.

-Traditional DU: Shiny Bastard (7") *Notes: 545lbs calibration.

-Reverse: Bastard (7") *Notes: About 440lbs calibration.

A few of those numbers might've been higher, but I went with conservative estimates.

My 6" stats are even more skewed in favor of DO. And even more drastically at the 4" length.

[luuc]

I think it should be compared to the capability's of the muscles/body in the different styles;

A BIEW:

The DO technique is easy,

The reverse technique is hard,

The DU technique is very hard.

(This is my experience, for others it may be different.)

So, if you are able to do a BIEW, you will be good at reverse and DU, but if you don't train your DO power specifically, you will 'not be good at that technique'.

It's genetically fixed that DO technique is strongest (without specific training), so you should be able to bend the best/strongest bars with the DO technique.

A BIEW sounds good because it states that your DU and reverse power are great, but the DO strength is unknown.

We (in the bending world) asume that the DO power will be great too, because you are trained.

It's like powerlifting, you have people who have a very high total (all 3 techniques), but also people who are more interested (or just better) in a certain technique.

[ewokhugo]

Thanks guys for your oppinion ...

my best so far ...

huge bastard(average)(do)

7 mm crs x 5 1/2" crs (du in im wraps) and

7 mm crs x 5 1/4" (reverse in im wraps).

7 mm its very close to grade 5. i gave all my energy during my first 3 months of bending to the Do style, but now i become interest to improve my weak du and reverse power.

Meanwhile i tried the Heslep style and vertical,BOTH ROCKS!

I think its a good idea to change your usual style(for most of us its DO) to something new to avoid boredom.

i think someone capable to bend one bastard or red nail in every way its a GOOD bender because the "balance" betwen all the styles.

Edited August 9, 2009 by ewokhugo

[gazza]

Ive always thought that as a bender one should be the best he can possibly be in a number of styles with a number of different materials and lengths as well as thicknesses.

Some people just bend for competition and cert lists thats fine if thats there thing.

The challenge for me is to be able to bend something in any style better than the next man imagine showing a bunch of work colleagues or some people in the public a bend say a DO style bend then one of them saying ok lets have a go and they duplicate your bend in another style but you cannot do it in that style would be a major embarrassment to me

I believe wrist and mind strength to be the key ingredients in bending so for the wrists i used to bend in all styles to cover all the bases hit the wrists from multiple angles.

[ewokhugo]

I believe wrist and mind strength to be the key ingredients in bending so for the wrists i used to bend in all styles to cover all the bases hit the wrists from multiple angles. thanks Gazza. U said for your wrist u bend in all styles ...

thanks Gazza! u said wrist + mind ... i am VERY interest to know how do u strenght up your MIND ... )))

[gazza]

I believe wrist and mind strength to be the key ingredients in bending so for the wrists i used to bend in all styles to cover all the bases hit the wrists from multiple angles. thanks Gazza. U said for your wrist u bend in all styles ...

thanks Gazza! u said wrist + mind ... i am VERY interest to know how do u strenght up your MIND ... )))

Hugo

For me it was Anger and Pain I learned to use them to create adrenaline surges and just kept on pushing my own @LIMITS@ seing how much Anger i could release and how much PAIN i could take.

Took along time to cultivate tho plus i looked into self hypnosis and other weird things but ive always thought of myself as being a little extreme and far from the norm

[ewokhugo]

excellent answer Gazza:-) thanks a lot.

[AdamTGlass]

I do not know what you mean by "sounds better" but BIEW is a substantial mark to hit as a bender. I am far happier with my Reverse bends with 5/16 than i am with DO of any size. Reverse is a very tough bending style. I believe Reverse bending is what really seperates the good from the great.

just to add to comparisons

DO best 7" 5/16 Gr 8 or 6" 23/64 bar (both feel pretty close to me)

DU 6.5" X 5/16 Hex bar

RV 6.25" X 5/16 (was a older bastard, no idea where it stands to new ones or new reds)

I believe my next level of progress will be made by closing the gap between bends, not mindlessly chasing thicker/harder/shorter bars DO. I also believe based upon observations and many conversations between high level benders: Your primary risk of injury DO is vastly decreased when you improve your strength in the other styles.

Form your own conclusions on what is best for you, and always keep moving forward.

[easyWeight]

I believe wrist and mind strength to be the key ingredients in bending so for the wrists i used to bend in all styles to cover all the bases hit the wrists from multiple angles. thanks Gazza. U said for your wrist u bend in all styles ...

thanks Gazza! u said wrist + mind ... i am VERY interest to know how do u strenght up your MIND ... )))

Hugo

For me it was Anger and Pain I learned to use them to create adrenaline surges and just kept on pushing my own @LIMITS@ seing how much Anger i could release and how much PAIN i could take.

Took along time to cultivate tho plus i looked into self hypnosis and other weird things but ive always thought of myself as being a little extreme and far from the norm

Darth Gazza.

[gazza]

This is what i would do if i was starting off again as a bender

Terminator[Reverse] Style

Du Style

Heslep Style

Ostlund Style

Barehanded or very thin wraps.

I would just work the technique part of the DO style bend and try a max once every 2 weeks.

All the above styles will hit the wrists hard from various angles and the barehanded/reduced wrapping will hit the hands and fingers hard and also make you use more wrists which in the long run will pay off big time.

Alot of benders become obsest with the bigger and bigger steel especially in the DO style this mixed with the fatter wraps from the beginning will lead to injury in an "INEXPERIENCED" bender because hes chaseing the targets but has not built the foundation it usually ends up in a few minor forearm tweaks wrist tweaks etc which wont go away and in the end they have to sit it out from a time from bending.

Nothing up with the fatter wraps infact they do serve there purpose but can give you a false indication of wether your hands/fingers/wrists and forearms are ready for the harder stuff especially if your a big bencher whos come over to bending then mate all that horsepower with fat pads and no bending foundation a pec rip or shoulder problem waiting to happen.

Who can bend a Red,Bastard or Shiny in Terminator,Heslep,Du,Ostlund etc a few of the top guys can and i dont mean DO style or Modified DU style that shoulkd be a given but unless you can atleast do a RED nail in atleast a couple of the above alternate styles then your wrist power bending wise is weak and you are only kidding yourself if you think your a great bender Shure you might be killing Mag shinys etc in the DO style but thats an easy way to progress and bend big steel once you get the technique dialled in.

PAT was Reversing Reds when only 2 other people hadbent a RED in DO style and even tho a RED nail is low on the bending lists now Reversing a RED nail is still an ELITE way to bend that bar so why is that arent we meant to be making progress as benders

Im full of S**T most of the time and havent bent in a while so if my babble dont sit with you very well just put it down to an old man past his sell buy date along time ago!

[judoboy]

after reading this thread, i've set myself a challenge of a 6mmx150mm bright nail IEW. 60dIEW sounds better but the nails i have are not technically 60d gauge.

i've been off bending for ages due to injuries, but this seems a good come-back strategy.

had a bash last night :

DO

2x 5.6mmx100mm galvanised - no worries (warm-up & confidence builder)

2x 6mmx150mm bright - no worries

DU

couldn't move the 5.6mm or 6mm (mostly due to poor technique, i guess)

Reverse

killed the 5.6mm to 90 & finished DO

kinked the 6mm, but couldn't move it any more.

i actually killed another 6mm DO afterwards just to prove it was an issue of technique.

all done in thin wraps, with bands, in under 15mins

DU & Reverse practice here i come...

[easyWeight]

This is what i would do if i was starting off again as a bender

Terminator[Reverse] Style

Du Style

Heslep Style

Ostlund Style

Barehanded or very thin wraps.

I would just work the technique part of the DO style bend and try a max once every 2 weeks.

All the above styles will hit the wrists hard from various angles and the barehanded/reduced wrapping will hit the hands and fingers hard and also make you use more wrists which in the long run will pay off big time.

Alot of benders become obsest with the bigger and bigger steel especially in the DO style this mixed with the fatter wraps from the beginning will lead to injury in an "INEXPERIENCED" bender because hes chaseing the targets but has not built the foundation it usually ends up in a few minor forearm tweaks wrist tweaks etc which wont go away and in the end they have to sit it out from a time from bending.

Nothing up with the fatter wraps infact they do serve there purpose but can give you a false indication of wether your hands/fingers/wrists and forearms are ready for the harder stuff especially if your a big bencher whos come over to bending then mate all that horsepower with fat pads and no bending foundation a pec rip or shoulder problem waiting to happen.

Who can bend a Red,Bastard or Shiny in Terminator,Heslep,Du,Ostlund etc a few of the top guys can and i dont mean DO style or Modified DU style that shoulkd be a given but unless you can atleast do a RED nail in atleast a couple of the above alternate styles then your wrist power bending wise is weak and you are only kidding yourself if you think your a great bender Shure you might be killing Mag shinys etc in the DO style but thats an easy way to progress and bend big steel once you get the technique dialled in.

PAT was Reversing Reds when only 2 other people hadbent a RED in DO style and even tho a RED nail is low on the bending lists now Reversing a RED nail is still an ELITE way to bend that bar so why is that arent we meant to be making progress as benders

Im full of S**T most of the time and havent bent in a while so if my babble dont sit with you very well just put it down to an old man past his sell buy date along time ago!

Just out of curiosity, gazza, do you, or have you, followed any kind of structured routine for bending? What have you done in the past to overcome plateaus?

[gazza]

Darin

Mostly i bent and did isos.

I figured out pretty early on that all the other grip stuff would have an effect on my bending and so bending at that early stage was my 1st love i thought lets just devote more time to bending and see what happens.

I was doing other stuff early on a sort of grip/strongman routine with a few mates/co workers but it was around bending not the other way around.

I would bend multiple times per day at arkward hours like if i was working nights i would bend during my break times 12-1 and 3-4 etc this causes the body to adapt to bend at any time ive always done this i would often do isos when on the crapper i kid you not nothing like hitting a 10secs iso to help it on its way

I carried 2 iso bars around with me daily with a set of small leathers and small crush pads one iso bar was straight one was 3inch between the legs this was 3/8inch stainless and one day i new it would bend because i could feel the one prekinked to 3inches flex when i really hit it so i new eventually it would flex more and more then eventually move.

I new from early on that i had something not just the iso strength but also the mindset i could see people around me giving up when they hit a hard piece of steel i just got madder and more angry i actually had serveral complaints against me at work cause i was told i was intimidating to others in the canteen when i bent steel funny thing is these same people didnt complain when i raised alot of money by bending for there charity events I can remember spending hours on a bar just to get it toi move 1/2inch it killed me but i always came back stronger.

I often found that i could after a plateau i would hit 3/4 prs in a 3-4 day span whilst others would hit maybe 1-2 prs i was hitting 3-4 then i would loose strength for a week and whilst others would rest in this faze i would carry on bending sometimes my hands were that saw i couldnt clench my fists but i would just get syked up and put on the bigger for me wraps and just bend at 75-85 percent of my maximum this to me always showed my mindset that i would now t give in to it even tho my hands were screaming this taught me a very valuable lesson the mind always tries to make the body quit dont let it.

After a few years of bending and doing other grip stuff,kbs and strongman etc even tho these things were done around my bending i decided to drop them completely and concentrate on the bending this was a crazy time in my life cause i was fighting an unfair dismisal case at work and banging heads with people here on the gboard.

Anger and crazyess became my friend and i channelled it all into bending i found a local steel supplier who could supply me as much stuff as i needed this helped alot and i quickly found out hat stainless was the best thing to train on as i was going though crs steel like it was going out of fashion sometimes i spent a couple hundred dollars aweek on crs this then got the missus moaning financially so i decided to look for harder stuff to bend something that would put up a fight and take longer to bend enter the STAINLESS

Stainess and Drillrod are the 2 best things to train on you can get them in small jumps the drillrod if you go for imperial and metric you can get it in 1/2mms increments i used to be able to get the stainless like this also but with the price of steel over the last few years i can only get it in the most common sizes now.

These last 6mths maybe abit longer ive groan dissillussioned with bending despite doing it for 7days a week for mths at a time ive probably took it as far as i can as an individual the crazyness is still there and sometimes when im board i just get the wraps out and induce a little pain to see if my mind can take it

If i was you i would bend useing only Stainless and drillrod and maybe some tough bolts to allow you to feel recoil especially the f911 and big g8s those are nasty but training with the stainless allows you to eventually crush most things.

If you want any speifics as regards training or a routine pm me.

Ultimately the buck stops with you how much do you want that next piece of steel are you prepaired to carry it around with you till its bent will you let it conume you and fill you wth hate,anger and crazyness or will you be like the majority content to be apart of the mix but in your mind you want to be on the top of the mountain but a weak mind is stopping you from being an ELITE or WORLDCLASS bender instead of a great bender like i said the buck stops with you.

[easyWeight]

Darin

Mostly i bent and did isos.

I figured out pretty early on that all the other grip stuff would have an effect on my bending and so bending at that early stage was my 1st love i thought lets just devote more time to bending and see what happens.

I was doing other stuff early on a sort of grip/strongman routine with a few mates/co workers but it was around bending not the other way around.

I would bend multiple times per day at arkward hours like if i was working nights i would bend during my break times 12-1 and 3-4 etc this causes the body to adapt to bend at any time ive always done this i would often do isos when on the crapper i kid you not nothing like hitting a 10secs iso to help it on its way

I carried 2 iso bars around with me daily with a set of small leathers and small crush pads one iso bar was straight one was 3inch between the legs this was 3/8inch stainless and one day i new it would bend because i could feel the one prekinked to 3inches flex when i really hit it so i new eventually it would flex more and more then eventually move.

I new from early on that i had something not just the iso strength but also the mindset i could see people around me giving up when they hit a hard piece of steel i just got madder and more angry i actually had serveral complaints against me at work cause i was told i was intimidating to others in the canteen when i bent steel funny thing is these same people didnt complain when i raised alot of money by bending for there charity events I can remember spending hours on a bar just to get it toi move 1/2inch it killed me but i always came back stronger.

I often found that i could after a plateau i would hit 3/4 prs in a 3-4 day span whilst others would hit maybe 1-2 prs i was hitting 3-4 then i would loose strength for a week and whilst others would rest in this faze i would carry on bending sometimes my hands were that saw i couldnt clench my fists but i would just get syked up and put on the bigger for me wraps and just bend at 75-85 percent of my maximum this to me always showed my mindset that i would now t give in to it even tho my hands were screaming this taught me a very valuable lesson the mind always tries to make the body quit dont let it.

After a few years of bending and doing other grip stuff,kbs and strongman etc even tho these things were done around my bending i decided to drop them completely and concentrate on the bending this was a crazy time in my life cause i was fighting an unfair dismisal case at work and banging heads with people here on the gboard.

Anger and crazyess became my friend and i channelled it all into bending i found a local steel supplier who could supply me as much stuff as i needed this helped alot and i quickly found out hat stainless was the best thing to train on as i was going though crs steel like it was going out of fashion sometimes i spent a couple hundred dollars aweek on crs this then got the missus moaning financially so i decided to look for harder stuff to bend something that would put up a fight and take longer to bend enter the STAINLESS

Stainess and Drillrod are the 2 best things to train on you can get them in small jumps the drillrod if you go for imperial and metric you can get it in 1/2mms increments i used to be able to get the stainless like this also but with the price of steel over the last few years i can only get it in the most common sizes now.

These last 6mths maybe abit longer ive groan dissillussioned with bending despite doing it for 7days a week for mths at a time ive probably took it as far as i can as an individual the crazyness is still there and sometimes when im board i just get the wraps out and induce a little pain to see if my mind can take it

If i was you i would bend useing only Stainless and drillrod and maybe some tough bolts to allow you to feel recoil especially the f911 and big g8s those are nasty but training with the stainless allows you to eventually crush most things.

If you want any speifics as regards training or a routine pm me.

Ultimately the buck stops with you how much do you want that next piece of steel are you prepaired to carry it around with you till its bent will you let it conume you and fill you wth hate,anger and crazyness or will you be like the majority content to be apart of the mix but in your mind you want to be on the top of the mountain but a weak mind is stopping you from being an ELITE or WORLDCLASS bender instead of a great bender like i said the buck stops with you.

Thanks for the thorough reply gazza! I'll PM you gazza. Thanks!

Edited August 15, 2009 by easyWeight