Nailmans Top 20 List

[jpmmkrahling]

I am just curious why no one has sent in any bends to Eric for his "Nailmans top 20 list". He stated that his other top 10 lists were all frozen and now the list will try to keep it an even playing field. It clearly spells out that it is sinlge wraps with a specific dia, 3 mins etc etc. I was just suprised to see no one on the list yet. It soulds like because it will all be calibrated stock so that it will be a true list of who has bent the strongest pcs of steel.

Me personally, i am just getting back into bending, after taking a couple of weeks off to heal up. And i plan on working on my single wrap bending to train for the SSS and to get my name on his list with something that is a worthy bend.

So why are you not on the list yet? Is is because of the single wraps? or because all the steel needs to be calibrated? I was just curiuos why it has not had more interest from the board?

[naturalstrength]

I am just curious why no one has sent in any bends to Eric for his "Nailmans top 20 list". He stated that his other top 10 lists were all frozen and now the list will try to keep it an even playing field. It clearly spells out that it is sinlge wraps with a specific dia, 3 mins etc etc. I was just suprised to see no one on the list yet. It soulds like because it will all be calibrated stock so that it will be a true list of who has bent the strongest pcs of steel.

Me personally, i am just getting back into bending, after taking a couple of weeks off to heal up. And i plan on working on my single wrap bending to train for the SSS and to get my name on his list with something that is a worthy bend.

So why are you not on the list yet? Is is because of the single wraps? or because all the steel needs to be calibrated? I was just curiuos why it has not had more interest from the board?

I honestly never even knew about the list. I think people are becoming less interested with certs, etc after they have been bending for some time. By the time someone is bending noteable steel(ie.Nailmans top 20 list, etc) in single leathers or IMP, the excitment of lists/certs wears off a bit. At least that is my take.

Its good to see you back Mike, and I am happy that your injuries have healed up

Edited July 8, 2009 by naturalstrength

[yodajaeger]

I am just curious why no one has sent in any bends to Eric for his "Nailmans top 20 list". He stated that his other top 10 lists were all frozen and now the list will try to keep it an even playing field. It clearly spells out that it is sinlge wraps with a specific dia, 3 mins etc etc. I was just suprised to see no one on the list yet. It soulds like because it will all be calibrated stock so that it will be a true list of who has bent the strongest pcs of steel.

Me personally, i am just getting back into bending, after taking a couple of weeks off to heal up. And i plan on working on my single wrap bending to train for the SSS and to get my name on his list with something that is a worthy bend.

So why are you not on the list yet? Is is because of the single wraps? or because all the steel needs to be calibrated? I was just curiuos why it has not had more interest from the board?

How does it work, are u supposed to PM him bends (youtube-link etc) or just add them in the thread?

[acorn]

Have only done 4 bends since Feb and 2 of them were in Chad's medley and the other 2 reds were in the week before his comp. Good luck to anyone wanting to pursue the list. Bending is not on my priorities list due to the issues it causes with my other training right now.

- Aaron

[jad]

Because single pads are about as useful as tits on a fish

[Autolupus]

It sounds like a lot of faffing about. If someone was intent on making specious claims I don't see how this is going to prevent them. I'm assuming stock would be sent to Eric for calibration but then it would be back to the integrity of the bender to use the same stock, unless of course they travelled to a place where Eric could witness them bending the stock he's calibrated. Otherwise it's basically back to the honour system.

I think the majority of benders are more concerned with beating their previous bends, if people want to see who's king of the hill then that's what contests are for...

[EricMilfeld]

It sounds like a lot of faffing about. If someone was intent on making specious claims I don't see how this is going to prevent them. I'm assuming stock would be sent to Eric for calibration but then it would be back to the integrity of the bender to use the same stock, unless of course they travelled to a place where Eric could witness them bending the stock he's calibrated. Otherwise it's basically back to the honour system.

I think the majority of benders are more concerned with beating their previous bends, if people want to see who's king of the hill then that's what contests are for...

I have not started a new list with new rules because of a suspected lack of integrity on anyone's part. I've always been fine with the degree of "honor system" inherent in these lists. My objective is to level the playing field, reduce the length of the videos, particularly the less intriguing parts , and have a more accurate assessment of what actually is being bent. It has become apparent that a Huge Shiny, for example, could mean anything from very good to elite, depending on how difficult the batch in question happens to be.

I've always thought that the sole purpose of wraps should be injury prevention. That doesn't mean that I espouse using wraps so thin that pain tolerance becomes a significant issue. I would like to try and insure that your bend is better than mine because you are the stronger bender, not the more skilled wrapper who happens to have mastered the use of much thicker wraps. Suppose your hands are much bigger than mine, odds are you could comfortably bend with wraps thicker than I could, thereby giving you additional leverage. Wrapping is tedious enough without the use of double wraps of exceptional thickness. Contests will flow better, as well, with reasonable rules of standardization.

I know this will not be a popular decision with some of the benders here, but I accept that as an unfortunate result of my attempt to improve things. I hold nothing against those who choose to use thicker wraps, double wraps, and crushdown pads, but with a list of the best ranked bends rules need to be implemented to insure apples are being compared to apples.

[yodajaeger]

I've always thought that the sole purpose of wraps should be injury prevention. That doesn't mean that I espouse using wraps so thin that pain tolerance becomes a significant issue. I would like to try and insure that your bend is better than mine because you are the stronger bender, not the more skilled wrapper who happens to have mastered the use of much thicker wraps. Suppose your hands are much bigger than mine, odds are you could comfortably bend with wraps thicker than I could, thereby giving you additional leverage. Wrapping is tedious enough without the use of double wraps of exceptional thickness. Contests will flow better, as well, with reasonable rules of standardization.

I know this will not be a popular decision with some of the benders here, but I accept that as an unfortunate result of my attempt to improve things. I hold nothing against those who choose to use thicker wraps, double wraps, and crushdown pads, but with a list of the best ranked bends rules need to be implemented to insure apples are being compared to apples.

A very good post Eric!

But I still would like to know how I report a bend to this list, shall I PM it or only add a link in the thread ?

[gazza]

Eric

A very well thought out post.

I personally like to make shure everything is on video IE:- From the opening of a package to the measuring and wrapping etc if this means splitting a video into numerous segments thats fine so long as it shows everything.

There will never be bending standards like there are with the MM grippers,V-Bar and Euro pinch [Despite your good self on numerous occassions trying to establish certain standards which i applaud you for ]

Just to much water under the bridge now to change things.

People will always follow certain people and the way that they bend wether that be me,you,Ben,Mike etc nothing is gonna change that the standards have been to lax for to long to change it now.

Like a few others here ive beat myself up over bending and especially standardisation but in the grand scheme of things is my way of bending any better than yours ,Adams,Mikes,Bens,Aarons,Jeremiahs etc in the end we have all bent BIG steel we have gone about it differently but in the end we have all helped to push the boundaries in one way or another.

Mike was probably spot on when he said bend with what wraps you feel confortable with thats probably the best way off keeping the FUN in it as you can get to involved in the politics of the bending forum etc and this ends up chaseing people away.

John Beatty and David Horne and you ERIC have done a great job with the records and cert lists etc but except for you eric John and David gave lots avenues to explore which is a fantastic thing and certs to go after plus John sponsors more or less every bending and grip comp going so people should buy from him it keeps the forum and comps going its just a shame that because the certs lists were created for the masses its allowed the standards to slip.

I was probably the second person after David Horne to use crush pads i copied the idea after attending one of his comps and in it he used 2" x 2" leather pads for bending i thought this would help me in my crushing so i got some thin leather belt and made a few pairs and used them with alot of success.

Now there are people useing crush pads double the thickness and with pockets in fine but people out there that want to cheat will start conceiling other things in those pockets to help there bends unless of coarse they show the pockets empty before and after,now i no BEN uses these and i also no that BEN is right up there bending wise and despite are bending love affair i regard BEN as one of the most knowledgeable and b est benders on the planet so its not aimed at him or other elite benders who use them as they are already ELITE benders but there will be those that will seak to gain UNFAIR advantages no matter what the same with gloves east to conceil stuff in unless you turn them inside out on video at the end of the bend etc this is why PAT when he penned the rules outlawed them its a slippery slope wqe are already on the way down.

Ive bend my fair share of metal alot more than most i bet and it varies the most consistent ive come across are the graded bolts and stainless but even these vary the only way to level the playing field on that one would be to batch test alot and then have people bend the same batch,thickness,length,material etc then wraps and crush pads would have to be considered

[bencrush]

Gazza, nice post man. I don't take the mention of crush pads personally at all man. I will freely admit that it's a hell of a lot harder when I'm not using them. That being said, it's obvious to anyone who's witnessed me bend that I can put that crush pad strength to use even without them. I consider them training tools that I have frankly probably over-used at this point. And by that I mean that I rely on them more than I would have even a few years ago. There's also a sense of security there for me when I pull them out. At the Mo Town Grip Down I didn't even warmup for the bending segment. I just knew that either the strength was there or it wasn't. It wasn't really a question of flexibility either - since the bars were all 6". It would have taken me much longer than 30 seconds to finish off that Huge Shiny if the pads had not been allowed that day. I remember offering my crush pads to other guys that day, but I certainly wouldn't have been offended in the least if someone had said "hey quit using those dang cheater crush pads!" - LOL.

I'm glad to see this new list actually become more tightly standardized as far as bar ratings and pads are concerned. I have bent twice in the 2 months since the MTGD and I've used the crush pads both times. My flexibility on the 7" bars is so poor now (from other weight training) that I can't get anything in a comfortable spot under my chin now. Of course I've helped enough people train to improve that bending-specific flexibility, but I don't care to alter anything to fit grip or bending now. I also realized on a few of the bends that I quit even attempting to crush the steel further - with just the double pads - when I hit the distance that I know for sure I can put the crush pads on at. That means I'm at the point where I've become too reliant on them and it's time for a change in training focus if I decide to pursue more bends in the near future.

I think this might garner more interest among beginners and even guys who haven't yet felt the cold embrace of the steel-bending fever. If this move to standardize stock and pads brings bending back to contests - it'll be worth it in my opinion. I may talk in more detail with Eric about this contest question because of something I'm putting together for later in the year.

Since we're on the topic of contests (off subject, but whatever, lol) - what's up with a few contests featuring bending in the medley? - when the same contest doesn't even feature bending as an event. I'm not knocking it, I think it's a cool idea. But that has puzzled me a bit. If it's good enough to put in a medley (and a good enough challenge to even warrant putting it in a contest medley) - why isn't it good enough to be a featured part of most grip contests again?

[EricMilfeld]

I am just curious why no one has sent in any bends to Eric for his "Nailmans top 20 list". He stated that his other top 10 lists were all frozen and now the list will try to keep it an even playing field. It clearly spells out that it is sinlge wraps with a specific dia, 3 mins etc etc. I was just suprised to see no one on the list yet. It soulds like because it will all be calibrated stock so that it will be a true list of who has bent the strongest pcs of steel.

Me personally, i am just getting back into bending, after taking a couple of weeks off to heal up. And i plan on working on my single wrap bending to train for the SSS and to get my name on his list with something that is a worthy bend.

So why are you not on the list yet? Is is because of the single wraps? or because all the steel needs to be calibrated? I was just curiuos why it has not had more interest from the board?

How does it work, are u supposed to PM him bends (youtube-link etc) or just add them in the thread?

You simply need to point me in the direction of the video so I can judge it. Where and how you post it is strictly up to you.

[EricMilfeld]

I forgot to mention what you made me remember, Gazza. Maybe John Beatty's PM box was full, but I PMed him a while back offering to calibrate specific batches of his steel for those interested in making a list or simply wanting to know the strength of the steel they're bending. I never received a response. John, did you ever get that PM? I thought it was a pretty cool idea, anyways. Sort of like his special private reserve stock.

[jpmmkrahling]

I forgot to mention what you made me remember, Gazza. Maybe John Beatty's PM box was full, but I PMed him a while back offering to calibrate specific batches of his steel for those interested in making a list or simply wanting to know the strength of the steel they're bending. I never received a response. John, did you ever get that PM? I thought it was a pretty cool idea, anyways. Sort of like his special private reserve stock.

That would be a cool idea, so we would know what we were going after. I think doing that on everything would be alot of work but on some of the higher end stuff would help know where we all stand. Kind of like that 705 lb pc (i think) that Paul bent.

Look at Iron Minds Red Nail Cert. It is alot harder to coordinate and get on the list, but because it is standardized it has a better feeling to achieve that given level. This Nailmans Top 20 could almost be like a higher level of that concept. And whats wrong with that. It will not be something for everyone, just like the red nail cert is not for everyone. But for the people who want it, it will be there.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Mike K