Specs For The Mmg7

[acorn]

Dont care what you make it. I'll close it regardless when I'm strong enough.

- Aaron

[Magnus]

Here's my opinion:

1 - Make MM7 a reasonable jump from MM6. Later Levels can always be added.

2 - Come up with a new level every time there are two on the current highest, giving the "pyramid effect". I.e, if there are in the future two on the MM6, then make then MM7. Then wait until there are two on the MM7 to make the MM8, etc.

One at a time. Look at when the MMG6 was closed and when the MMG5's were closed.

Not quite what I meant. I mean make two prototypes to candidate for the MM7: a 5/16 Pro and a 1/8" GE. Which ever you deem better for MM7 will be the next 7.

Has anyone experimented with a pro at 1/4" or 5/16" mount? I like the idea of using a pro, but only if its possible to close. No sense in making an MM7 that wont be closed for 10 years

Why not?

Teemu's BB Pro vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMxj2bEymeM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zd5dUM-HSc...feature=related

They're Narrows, though. Not to take anything away from the closes at all, but that's not really comparing apples to apples. All MM grippers have a 2.75" spread. If we're gonna use a pro, make the mount usable.

The harder the MM7 gripper is, up to a point, the more it's going to accelerate the development of the sport.

I bet Randall considered all sorts of strengths lower than the strength he actually decided on for the #4. "This is unreasonably hard," some people surely said. "Nobody will ever close this". I wonder if the development of the sport would have been slower had he chosen a thinner spring for the #4. It seems plausible.

I suggest that the MM7 push the limits of human potential.

-Rex

That's where the MM8 can come in. There's no cap to how many levels we need to add. No sense in making the jumps ridiculous then. If anything, smaller jumps in between levels will increase the amount of certs, thus accelerating the development of the sport, not a jump so big that it'll take a while for even the current elite to bridge the gap.

Find a #4 calibrated at 200# and add "MM7" to the handles.

Heck YEAH Or we could just use my 220lb GE. That'd make for a nice challenge

Agreed, and a good thought. However, if it is so hard that guys like Mobster, Chad, Paul, and Teemu are missing it by 3/8", then I think that its a little overkill with pushing the limits. Im not saying to make it just barely harder then the MM6, but it needs to be remembered that even a gripper thats 1 lb harder at that level makes a world of difference (ask Teemu), and when you factor in the bigger coil size of the pro, it just adds another variable that needs to be considered when deciding on the strength of the gripper. Make it hard, but remember that, if need be, there can always be a MM8

^^^^^^Exactly.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Im not saying make it easy just so people can close it. Heck, Im with you, in that I want it to be a an incredible challenge. But this sport has a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go before we hit the absolute "limit" (I personally dont think we're even close). I dont think the MM7 can or will be the top of hill, and with that in mind, I dont see the point of making a gripper thats only one level up, but is a few levels harder than it should be.

After all this typing, you end up agreeing with me Your a terrible arguer, or you've given up. Either way, goodnight.

[justiceislost1988]

Dont care what you make it. I'll close it regardless when I'm strong enough.

- Aaron

^^^^^^^That's the way it should be thought about. ^^^^^^^^

I'm with Zach, and Rex.

[Booyah!!!]

2 cents from a mortal guy,

LVL- 7-1/8 mount

LVL- 8-1/16 mount

LVL- 9- flush mount

LVL- 10- BB Pro spring

[mobsterone]

Every time the bar is raised no matter what the sport the lower levels also, almost by sucking people up a notch as it were, become more filled. So the more MM5's and above the more MM4's certs and below we will see. An MM7, 8, whatever, will move things up as notch not just at the top but the whole way through the pyramid.

[andyfreeland]

Dont care what you make it. I'll close it regardless when I'm strong enough.

- Aaron

That's what i'm talkin bout

[Teemu I]

Flush mount BBGE would sound right in theory, mine calibrated at 202 lbs and if you'd get something similar to that it would be good. I'm just going by the mount and spread here, as I don't have any idea yet how hard the actual MM6 is. But my adj. BBGE was not that bad with the MM6 mount. I would say make it a flush mount. Don't jump up in spring diameter yet, as I think a regular BBGE like mine (slightly over 200 lbs+) would be quite similar to CoC #4's.

[Bill Piche]

Small in increments has worked well so far by the way with most saying they noticed the jumps. That also played. I know we probably didn't get it totally right on the whole ladder but I think it's probably worked well so far.

[mightyjoe]

Dont care what you make it. I'll close it regardless when I'm strong enough.

- Aaron

That's the way to look at it Aaron.

Mighty Joe

[Too Tall]

I would say small increments...because A LOT of us are going to be small increments away from each other anyway on grippers. This way will keep the interest up and keep the race tight and keep guys training to move up the ladder. Just my thoughts.

Chad

[mobsterone]

Agreed. Unless we rate using an RGC or similar EVERY gripper then it'll be a matter of a few pounds difference at the top end. The step up should be on a par with the steps before it whatever those rate at. So the difference between the 5 and 6 etc should be the same as between a 6 and a 7.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Im not saying make it easy just so people can close it. Heck, Im with you, in that I want it to be a an incredible challenge. But this sport has a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go before we hit the absolute "limit" (I personally dont think we're even close). I dont think the MM7 can or will be the top of hill, and with that in mind, I dont see the point of making a gripper thats only one level up, but is a few levels harder than it should be.

Far from it. I said I agree with you in that I want it to be hard, but if you read my entire post, I say that I dont think the gripper should be a few levels harder then it should be which is what you've been suggesting. I dont know why you think Im agreeing with you.........

Then I interpreted the above bolded part, especially that in red, differently. My mistake. I don't even know what one "level" is, so I'm hardly suggesting Bill have the MM7 be several of them harder. All I know is the MM6 was supposedly around an easy #4 at most, that's going by an old post of Morton's and I could certainly be misquoting. With that in mind, should not the MM7 be around a medium strength #4?

Edited January 6, 2009 by MalachiMcMullen

[Magnus]

After all this typing, you end up agreeing with me Your a terrible arguer, or you've given up. Either way, goodnight.

There's no problem with his arguing. The problem apparently lies with the reader

Every time the bar is raised no matter what the sport the lower levels also, almost by sucking people up a notch as it were, become more filled. So the more MM5's and above the more MM4's certs and below we will see. An MM7, 8, whatever, will move things up as notch not just at the top but the whole way through the pyramid.

Small in increments has worked well so far by the way with most saying they noticed the jumps. That also played. I know we probably didn't get it totally right on the whole ladder but I think it's probably worked well so far.

I would say small increments...because A LOT of us are going to be small increments away from each other anyway on grippers. This way will keep the interest up and keep the race tight and keep guys training to move up the ladder. Just my thoughts.

Chad

Agreed. Unless we rate using an RGC or similar EVERY gripper then it'll be a matter of a few pounds difference at the top end. The step up should be on a par with the steps before it whatever those rate at. So the difference between the 5 and 6 etc should be the same as between a 6 and a 7.

Hmmm, let's see:

Chad, Mob, and Bill say small increments. But, come to think of it, it's not like their opinions really matter much

Smaller increments -~5-10lb- make more sense, no matter how you look at it, and what's been posted by the best only proves out what Josh and I have been saying all along. No two ways around it.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Magnus

[abagh89]

]

Hmmm, let's see:

Chad, Mob, and Bill say small increments. But, come to think of it, it's not like their opinions really matter much

Smaller increments -~5-10lb- make more sense, no matter how you look at it, and what's been posted by the best only proves out what Josh and I have been saying all along. No two ways around it.

YOUR WRONG!! the MM7 gripper needs to feel like a beef builder super galaxy.

In all seriousness how is this going to work? couple of questions im wondering about. are you going to create another gripper everytime two people are on a level? What if so much time passes by before another person is also able to close that gripper? Like dave morton for example, does he even train grip now? what if at the time of closing the mm6 gripper he wanted to do something harder? or in the future someone is "king of the hill" and wants a harder gripper to close, but by the time another person is able to close the gripper that they are on, they lost their strength. Who will be the first to try the mm7 gripper? are you going to wait until there are a couple people at mm6 level and then put the mm7 gripper out?

My point is if you wait for a couple of people to get to mm6 status and let any one of them try the mm7, they are going to close it. So it will just matter who gets the gripper first. I think it should be just beyond the current reach of those at that strength level, that way everyone at mm6 will have to train for it and its not going to be a given for any one of them ( but well in the reach of human capabilities). From my understanding the mm7 is going to be created because there might be more than 1 person on the top of the pyramid (if thats not the reason why wasnt one created when dave hit mm6?). so with the mm7 i am assuming its to thin out the herd(of the 2-3 people that will be mm6) and establish a king of the hill. I dont think bill wants to make another gripper every few weeks or so.

[mobsterone]

I suspect it's the feeling that there will be WAY more than 1 or 2 at the top sometime this year. I'd hazard a guess 4-6.

[gumpster]

This thread has some great opinions from grip guys of all levels so I'm going to throw my $0.02 in even though I'm not even a MM0 (yet). First, for those too lazy to go find it here are the specs for the current line-up of MM grippers.

MM1:

Tetting Elite .295" Spring

1/4" Mounting Depth

2.75" Spread

MM2

Tetting Elite .295" Spring

3/16" Mounting Depth

2.75" Spread

MM3

Tetting Super Elite .306" Spring

1/4" Mounting Depth

2.75" Spread

MM4

Tetting Super Elite .306" Spring

3/16" Mounting Depth

2.75" Spread

MM5

Tetting Grand Elite .312" Spring

1/4" Mounting Depth

2.75" Spread

MM6

Tetting Grand Elite .312" Spring

3/16" Mounting Depth

2.75" Spread

I like the fact that the grippers were all made with the same spread to keep things consistent. I assume this would continue with future levels up the ladder. The spring size was increased every 2 levels and the mount changed within each size from 1/4" to 3/16". Going by his pattern, it seems like the next step would be another increase in spring size and a 1/4" mount. My guess is that may be too big a jump in difficulty so the logical step would be to keep the spring the same and change the mount to something between flush and 1/8". That seems like it would fit the bill for being a smaller increment preferred by the guys who are near that level. The MM8 would probably need to be an increase in spring size (or a change in gripper brand - but finding a CoC #4 with a 2.75" spread and the appropriate level of difficulty could be a problem). What will happen down the road if Mr. Tetting isn't available to make these custom grippers?

In the beginning of the MM process the grippers were sent to some certified #3 closers for their opinion on the difficulty of the grippers. I don't particularly like the human element in that part of the process but what's done is done (I don't believe the RGC was available back in those days). I think the number of people who could accurately judge the difficulty of a MM7 gripper (with a small increase in difficulty) over the MM6 by feel could be counted on one hand. I'd like to see the RGC brought into the MM process and the gripper made could be verified with more than just "feel". I'm not saying the calibrated poundage needs to be released (Bill has said previously that the MM grippers would not be run through the RGC so their real numbers will remain unknown) but I think the RGC could be used effectively to make more accurate small increments in difficulty with the MM7 and beyond and their actual poundage could remain a mystery. Grippers vary as everyone knows and it's entirely possible that a (for example) [Grand Elite, .312" Spring, 1/8" Mounting Depth, 2.75" Spread] gripper made for the next MM7 could end up feeling easier than the MM6 or much much harder with an inappropriate jump in difficulty. I'd hate for the top guys to get discouraged and let their gripper goals fade away.

The MM6 gripper from what I've read seems to be harder than the BBSE and easier than the #4. That could be an easy, average, or hard #4. I decided to come up with a hypothetical "in a perfect world with a RGC" ranking of the MM grippers and where the MM7 might fall. The real grippers are most likely not as evenly spaced but it kind of gave me an idea of decent increments. A 192# MM6 would make it similar to a very easy #4 or hard BBSE so it could be fairly close. Going by this, the next logical step would be 199#. That might be a little too easy but I doubt too hard for the next step.

MM1 - 157

MM2 - 164

MM3 - 171

MM4 - 178

MM5 - 185

MM6 - 192

MM7 - 199

Anyway, great thread and I hope all the views shared help Bill in his decision on creating the MM7.

[acorn]

just to throw some more info into the mix. with the testing I've done on my adjustables, I typically see about a 5-6# change in RGC calibrated number for each 1/16" change in mount depth on the same gripper. that can be quite a significant change in feel at the higher levels.

- Aaron

[Magnus]

I'm all for about a 5lb change...or possibly less (again, no limit to the levels, here).

Edited January 7, 2009 by Magnus

[Grippster]

I'm not even close to getting on the MM board yet, but I think the MM7 should be some where between a GE and a Pro. Time to separate the men from the boys

[Paul Knight]

just to throw some more info into the mix. with the testing I've done on my adjustables, I typically see about a 5-6# change in RGC calibrated number for each 1/16" change in mount depth on the same gripper. that can be quite a significant change in feel at the higher levels.

- Aaron

There's the answer, and as many have already said, a tougher gripper can always be made

[lukeamdman]

just to throw some more info into the mix. with the testing I've done on my adjustables, I typically see about a 5-6# change in RGC calibrated number for each 1/16" change in mount depth on the same gripper. that can be quite a significant change in feel at the higher levels.

- Aaron

I agree. I've seen this very same thing with my RGC.

[CoC#3]

I think the MM7 should be an average #4 - RGC calibrated around 200-210lbs. If it has to be a beefbuilder i think a GE at 1/16'' would do the trick. I have a BB pro at 1/4'' mount and i cannot even set it properly.

[Scott Styles]

One of the more boring parts of a grip contest is when there are large gaps between two grippers and guys of different strengths cluster together. Small increments are the way to go.

[mightyjoe]

I would say that the increment between a CoC #3 and CoC #4 is not

small. The #4 has now been conquered several times.

I can't imagine staleness or loss of interest from too big of an increment.

Guys will go crazy trying to shut it. Gripsters giving up grippers because

they can't imagine closing a certain gripper is humerous. I'm telling you, it

will drive people, not hinder them.

Make the MM7 HARD!

Why not go ahead and make an MM8 too? This way the MM7 becomes a gripper to

get past and not the stopping point of elite gripper levels.

There's been plenty of input. Let's get that MM7 & MM8 going!!!

CRUSH IT!!!

Mighty Joe