Ask Ironmind To Include Ccs Closes Or Girls?

[vikingsrule92]

I'll throw in my 2 cents

A 2 and 2.5 cert for women is a great idea. We need to grow as grip sport, give women something attainable to shoot for. The #3? If a woman can close the #3, she should be right on the COC list with the men.

A #2 is out the reach of most men unless they train for it. A 2.5 will stop nearly anyone unless they are a PL, Arm Wr, farmer or a grip athlete. A women who closes a 2.5 is a captain of crush in every sense of the word.

Now that we are coming an agreement that there should be a list-Does anyone know a girl whos last name is not Horne who is interested in closing heavy grippers????

Titania has closed some BIG grippers! Zach would know better than I here but I think she's closed a #2.5, I know she's closed at least a #2. Not sure about CCS though.

I agree they should have a seperate list. I can't remember what I said earlier in this list but this is how I feel after hearing the valid points. Women have smaller hands and are naturally less strong then men (no sexism intended of course) so their accomplishments should be different. After all, we don't put women against men in basketball or nay other sport (I think someone already said this). But whether Randy would actually make another list, that I kind of doubt, but we could keep track of it here if Jedd would do so and Randy wouldn't.

[aquilonian]

http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?viewke...c58bd89ec149400

at 150lbs shes beating pretty much EVERY MAN out there at that weight as well. I guess no one told her did they? PULEEESEEE!

Hey question.....What ever happened to "There is no direct correlation between grip and body size or overall strenght level." ?

Screw that there is just not enough interest YET in the female population to get into it. Soon you WILL see a legitimate female #3 coc just a matter of time.

make no mistake women are ruthless in every way, when they want something bad enough they dont care who they trample along the way. when you have that kind of attitude "nothing will stop me" you can accomplish some amazing things.

[aquilonian]

incase anyone cares its IPF. no triple ply, monolift, quarter squat BS here.

[superfeemiman]

http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?viewke...c58bd89ec149400

at 150lbs shes beating pretty much EVERY MAN out there at that weight as well. I guess no one told her did they? PULEEESEEE!

Hey question.....What ever happened to "There is no direct correlation between grip and body size or overall strenght level." ?

Screw that there is just not enough interest YET in the female population to get into it. Soon you WILL see a legitimate female #3 coc just a matter of time.

make no mistake women are ruthless in every way, when they want something bad enough they dont care who they trample along the way. when you have that kind of attitude "nothing will stop me" you can accomplish some amazing things.

So you think if you averaged all men and women out that they would have the same potential for grip strength? There may be a female 3 CCS'er in the future, but I'm guessing unless she is a freak of nature it would probably be harder for her to get than a man to get. That's my point.

[shizen]

http://ironscene.com/view_video.php?viewke...c58bd89ec149400

at 150lbs shes beating pretty much EVERY MAN out there at that weight as well. I guess no one told her did they? PULEEESEEE!

Hey question.....What ever happened to "There is no direct correlation between grip and body size or overall strenght level." ?

Screw that there is just not enough interest YET in the female population to get into it. Soon you WILL see a legitimate female #3 coc just a matter of time.

make no mistake women are ruthless in every way, when they want something bad enough they dont care who they trample along the way. when you have that kind of attitude "nothing will stop me" you can accomplish some amazing things.

how do we know thats a women Also compare that to men which is 1200+ lbs for world record, yeah no comparison.

Edited February 5, 2008 by shizen

[gumpster]

But whether Randy would actually make another list, that I kind of doubt, but we could keep track of it here if Jedd would do so and Randy wouldn't.

I agree with that. We should have some Gripboard women's records for this (maybe #2 & #2.5 since a #3 is a long way off). While I'd like to see Ironmind start up a cert for women I don't think it'll happen anytime soon. This place would give them a spot to show off their accomplishments.

The same thing goes for all the other grip feats recognized here. Maybe stepping things down a notch for the ladies - like a 40lb blob, 35s by the hub, 4 10s pinch, 2 35s pinch. These are mid-level goals for most male gripsters but I'd wager not many ladies could do them (can anyone picture a female lifting the inch?). It can only help generate more interest in the sport.

[David Horne]

There is a list of strength feats for women, which is growing.

http://www.davidhorne-gripmaster.com/strongwomancerts.html

Also plenty of Ladies recs here

http://www.davidhorne-gripmaster.com/britishrecords.html

[matthcarl]

I think a separate list would be great and might help encourage women to join in. I do not think it is sexist to recognize (and appreciate) the differences between men and women.

[superfeemiman]

I think a separate list would be great and might help encourage women to join in. I do not think it is sexist to recognize (and appreciate) the differences between men and women.

I agree, it has nothing to do with thinking they have less determination or will.

[knowledgeseaker]

Just my .02. It is very silly for a seperate board. The way ironmind has it set up is great. there is no racism or sexism. The point of the ironmind #3 and #4 list is to acknowledge those with superior hand strength. And for those of you saying that if you add a womens certification board, it will attract a larger audience to grip training, do you guys actually want that? Grip trainers just like hardcore powerlifters are a minority. We do this for the love of the sport, not because it has the biggest audience, or is what everyone else is doing. A woman will close the number 3 no doubt about that and when she does she will be placed on the list, I personally think that will even infurate some women to have a seperate board, To strive to close the number 3, and then have ironmind make a 2.0-2.5 certification list for women because they are "weaker" as some said on the post is outragous. With this kind of logic then after a womens certification board, we should have a list with age divisions then.

[Alawadhi]

Just my .02. It is very silly for a seperate board. The way ironmind has it set up is great. there is no racism or sexism. The point of the ironmind #3 and #4 list is to acknowledge those with superior hand strength. And for those of you saying that if you add a womens certification board, it will attract a larger audience to grip training, do you guys actually want that? Grip trainers just like hardcore powerlifters are a minority. We do this for the love of the sport, not because it has the biggest audience, or is what everyone else is doing. A woman will close the number 3 no doubt about that and when she does she will be placed on the list, I personally think that will even infurate some women to have a seperate board, To strive to close the number 3, and then have ironmind make a 2.0-2.5 certification list for women because they are "weaker" as some said on the post is outragous. With this kind of logic then after a womens certification board, we should have a list with age divisions then.

1- Every sport has a weight devision and sex catagory. I don't see this as a racism or sexism. Women by nature are weaker than men. So if there was a contest were men and women compete, then men will ALWAYS win. And that's a fact (if both were training under the same condition that is).

2- I see no problem with more people joning our grip world. It's exactly the opposite. I like to see more people joining this board and training their grip.

[aquilonian]

Just my .02. It is very silly for a seperate board. The way ironmind has it set up is great. there is no racism or sexism. The point of the ironmind #3 and #4 list is to acknowledge those with superior hand strength. And for those of you saying that if you add a womens certification board, it will attract a larger audience to grip training, do you guys actually want that? Grip trainers just like hardcore powerlifters are a minority. We do this for the love of the sport, not because it has the biggest audience, or is what everyone else is doing. A woman will close the number 3 no doubt about that and when she does she will be placed on the list, I personally think that will even infurate some women to have a seperate board, To strive to close the number 3, and then have ironmind make a 2.0-2.5 certification list for women because they are "weaker" as some said on the post is outragous. With this kind of logic then after a womens certification board, we should have a list with age divisions then.

1- Every sport has a weight devision and sex catagory. I don't see this as a racism or sexism. Women by nature are weaker than men. So if there was a contest were men and women compete, then men will ALWAYS win. And that's a fact (if both were training under the same condition that is).

2- I see no problem with more people joning our grip world. It's exactly the opposite. I like to see more people joining this board and training their grip.

OK my final words on the topic: you get a list for women fine whatever BUT WHY A #2?... A #2 is not any harder for a woman to get to than it is for a man. good grip strength yeah but big whoop. make it a #3 but then if you do make it a three why do you need the separate list anyway? hasn't she earned the right to be listed among the men? certainly she is strong enough. So then there is no need for a separate list.

Now everyone here seems to ignore the point I brought up- If grip strenght has no direct correlation with size, weight, age or overall strength level, why then are you claiming there is a direct correlation to sex. why? tell me. is it because men are bigger? Is it because men are stronger? Wait those couldnt be because grip has no direct connection with how much muscles you have or how much you can lift. and it has been proven that you can have strong hands even when they are small. so why? I pray do tell.

Now if you told me that women cant get there because they dont give a damn about having a strong grip, then I'll believe you. Yeah I have not seen women destroying their hands and ripping their skin on the grippers ever. EVER. Infact the only time I have seen women having a somewhat serious addiction to grip is when their BOYFRIENd/HUSBAND is really into it. and even then their efforts pale in comparison to their male counterparts.

A question for the rest of you whose girlfriend/wife does gripping with you. Does she do it with the same kind of intensity as you? and has she done it for as long as you? if the answer is yes to both then at what level are you and at what level is she? chances are though she just thinks your dumb or weird.

I write this because I know from experience that a woman closing a #2, even from a CCS (yes even with tiny hands) will not take that long, is not that hard and certainly not deserving of certification on the level of a man closing a #3. And it is my personal suspicion that the supporters of these separate list for women have not met or seen IN PERSON, a female closing a #2 and therefore are outstanded by the idea of it. When in fact if they did and had a chance to talk with one they would find out its no harder physically (psychologically yes, physically no) for a woman to close a gripper, than it is for a man. Closing a three with a CCS will take the average man years, same for a woman. there are a few women who have taken this endeavor but for whatever reason have stopped pursuing it (injury, other interests ect.). eventually one will come who did not stop and who actually GIVES A DAMN about RECOGNITION,and then maybe more will come.

so no the answer is not "give them their own certification" rather the answer is " lets get ONE to certify so that the others see its possible. we'll get them in one at a time". and guys if you want to see a woman close a #3 youre not gonna find one.....YOU yes you, are gonna have to MAKE ONE!!! so get your girl away from the TV and hand her those grippers now, cause its gonna take years buddy.

Sorry for the long winded post, its just that I know when I am being BS'd and I dont take to it too well. If you had just said "hey they dont give a damn, lets lower the standards for them so that they can get their lazy asses motivated" then hey I woul'nt have cared. sure go ahead. lets give those bums some motivation.

Now, for the guys out there who are honestly training these women or who do hope to make a female with an outstanding grip (even for male standards), with all the sincerity in the world I wish you GOOD LUCK!!!

[shizen]

Just my .02. It is very silly for a seperate board. The way ironmind has it set up is great. there is no racism or sexism. The point of the ironmind #3 and #4 list is to acknowledge those with superior hand strength. And for those of you saying that if you add a womens certification board, it will attract a larger audience to grip training, do you guys actually want that? Grip trainers just like hardcore powerlifters are a minority. We do this for the love of the sport, not because it has the biggest audience, or is what everyone else is doing. A woman will close the number 3 no doubt about that and when she does she will be placed on the list, I personally think that will even infurate some women to have a seperate board, To strive to close the number 3, and then have ironmind make a 2.0-2.5 certification list for women because they are "weaker" as some said on the post is outragous. With this kind of logic then after a womens certification board, we should have a list with age divisions then.

1- Every sport has a weight devision and sex catagory. I don't see this as a racism or sexism. Women by nature are weaker than men. So if there was a contest were men and women compete, then men will ALWAYS win. And that's a fact (if both were training under the same condition that is).

2- I see no problem with more people joning our grip world. It's exactly the opposite. I like to see more people joining this board and training their grip.

OK my final words on the topic: you get a list for women fine whatever BUT WHY A #2?... A #2 is not any harder for a woman to get to than it is for a man. good grip strength yeah but big whoop. make it a #3 but then if you do make it a three why do you need the separate list anyway? hasn't she earned the right to be listed among the men? certainly she is strong enough. So then there is no need for a separate list.

Now everyone here seems to ignore the point I brought up- If grip strenght has no direct correlation with size, weight, age or overall strength level, why then are you claiming there is a direct correlation to sex. why? tell me. is it because men are bigger? Is it because men are stronger? Wait those couldnt be because grip has no direct connection with how much muscles you have or how much you can lift. and it has been proven that you can have strong hands even when they are small. so why? I pray do tell.

Now if you told me that women cant get there because they dont give a damn about having a strong grip, then I'll believe you. Yeah I have not seen women destroying their hands and ripping their skin on the grippers ever. EVER. Infact the only time I have seen women having a somewhat serious addiction to grip is when their BOYFRIENd/HUSBAND is really into it. and even then their efforts pale in comparison to their male counterparts.

A question for the rest of you whose girlfriend/wife does gripping with you. Does she do it with the same kind of intensity as you? and has she done it for as long as you? if the answer is yes to both then at what level are you and at what level is she? chances are though she just thinks your dumb or weird.

I write this because I know from experience that a woman closing a #2, even from a CCS (yes even with tiny hands) will not take that long, is not that hard and certainly not deserving of certification on the level of a man closing a #3. And it is my personal suspicion that the supporters of these separate list for women have not met or seen IN PERSON, a female closing a #2 and therefore are outstanded by the idea of it. When in fact if they did and had a chance to talk with one they would find out its no harder physically (psychologically yes, physically no) for a woman to close a gripper, than it is for a man. Closing a three with a CCS will take the average man years, same for a woman. there are a few women who have taken this endeavor but for whatever reason have stopped pursuing it (injury, other interests ect.). eventually one will come who did not stop and who actually GIVES A DAMN about RECOGNITION,and then maybe more will come.

so no the answer is not "give them their own certification" rather the answer is " lets get ONE to certify so that the others see its possible. we'll get them in one at a time". and guys if you want to see a woman close a #3 youre not gonna find one.....YOU yes you, are gonna have to MAKE ONE!!! so get your girl away from the TV and hand her those grippers now, cause its gonna take years buddy.

Sorry for the long winded post, its just that I know when I am being BS'd and I dont take to it too well. If you had just said "hey they dont give a damn, lets lower the standards for them so that they can get their lazy asses motivated" then hey I woul'nt have cared. sure go ahead. lets give those bums some motivation.

Now, for the guys out there who are honestly training these women or who do hope to make a female with an outstanding grip (even for male standards), with all the sincerity in the world I wish you GOOD LUCK!!!

didn't bother to read all of that but you disagree thats fine but most of the people here don't agree with you. Also I'm curious can you close a #3, or even a #2? A #3 isn't super hard for men a lot of people on this very board get it in less then a year of training. Now a #4 well yeah most will NEVER get it, and I'd argue take a genetic freak to get it CCS. Thats How I view a #3 to women, the equivalent to a #4 to men.

[superfeemiman]

Now everyone here seems to ignore the point I brought up- If grip strenght has no direct correlation with size, weight, age or overall strength level, why then are you claiming there is a direct correlation to sex. why? tell me. is it because men are bigger? Is it because men are stronger? Wait those couldnt be because grip has no direct connection with how much muscles you have or how much you can lift. and it has been proven that you can have strong hands even when they are small. so why? I pray do tell.

I think it has been shown that there isn't a large correlation, but not that there isn't a direct correlation at all. And there are many more physical differences between the average man and woman than that.

[knowledgeseaker]

didn't bother to read all of that but you disagree thats fine but most of the people here don't agree with you. Also I'm curious can you close a #3, or even a #2? A #3 isn't super hard for men a lot of people on this very board get it in less then a year of training. Now a #4 well yeah most will NEVER get it, and I'd argue take a genetic freak to get it CCS. Thats How I view a #3 to women, the equivalent to a #4 to men.

If you didnt bother to read all of his post, why are you commenting. If you would have read what he said, he clearly answered your question. "i view a #3 to women, the equivallent to a #4 to men"? uhm no a #3 is a #3. 300 pounds will always be 300 pounds.

[naturalstrength]

"can't we all just get along"

[superfeemiman]

"can't we all just get along"

We can agree to disagree. No problem with that.

But I do think arguing can change people's opinions, maybe not at the time, but later. If anything, it helps them consider the other opinion, as someone probably wouldn't argue it if made absolutely no sense to them.

[CoC#3]

I maintain that a #2.5 list (CCS) would be a suitable idea for women's certs. It is acheivable. Do women and men compete together in 100m sprints? NO. Is a woman ever going to out perform her male counterpart on the track (assuming both are world class then NO). In field sports the discus, hammer and javelin are lighter for women. And even then they do not throw as far. Same for grip - i don't see why it should be any different.

When it comes to a woman closing a #3 from CCS (which would have to be achieved to get on the current IM list), think of the following things,

1)How many women even train their grips or are bothered compared to men?

2)How mnay women have shut their #2? About 5 or 6 tops - mamybe more i have not heard about? - if you are a girl and close a #2 i take of my hat to you this is VERY good feat of strength.

3)How many of those can CCS that #2?

4)CCS #3 is hard feat for MEN who have been doing strongman for years. How many people are certing these days? I specialise in grip and have been training for a few years mainly grip and strongman aswell and cannot alywas hit a CCS #3.

5)Like it or not women have smaller hands. Smaller hands do make a big difference on CCS as it is near impossible to get the gripper into the sweet spot from a CCS if your hands are under 7.5''.

[shizen]

If you didnt bother to read all of his post, why are you commenting. If you would have read what he said, he clearly answered your question. "i view a #3 to women, the equivallent to a #4 to men"? uhm no a #3 is a #3. 300 pounds will always be 300 pounds.

Do you not know what equivalent means? I read most of it not very clearly I made some points on some of the things he said, he is just going in circles with his argument.

[naturalstrength]

Time for my 1 cent. I am new to the sport of grip strength and I LOVE it!!! I have read most everyone's posts concerning this topic and everyone is right and wrong IMHO. The sport of grip strength/bending etc is growing. My personal experience thus far is that when MOST(if not all) women I've discussed grip with mostly retort with the following statement, "Now I know what you do at night when you get home"!, haha, blah blah.

Most women don't and will not ever view bending metal and closing spring loaded handles a task worthy of pursuing. If a select handful do, than I believe that they should be placed on the same certification list as men. Let me ask you this question, what if a women bends a red nail, or even a magnificent shiny bastard (maybe even bare handed, they do after all tolerate pain better than men, and thats a fact ), etc. Should she be certed with the men? I think so! If I bench 300, and a women benches the same, I believe we BOTH lifted the same weight am I not right?

Should we have age categories for bending certifications? Men under 18. Men 21-35. Maybe even a "Metamucil" category for us older farts who are bending reds and FBBC with arthritis, while drinking prune juice, etc. Should the 18 year olds not be on the list because they have youth and vigor on their side (some may view that as an unfair advantage). I say, CERTAINLY NOT!!!!

The point is that when you make distinctions, it can all get a bit CONFUSING for everybody!!!

(EDIT) I am not too bothered ultimately because at this point in my life I can't certify on anything-Ha

Have a nice day

[Titania]

Hi guys,

I haven't been on here for a while and decided to drop by and catch up on what's happening when I found this thread.

As a woman who has closed a 2.5, I figured I'd add a point for you all to ponder.

I'm all for the addition of a women's grip division with different certification levels and no, that's not because I know I could get onto a 2.5 list. It is because I know and accept that there are physical and biological differences between women and men.

Let me ask you all this. If the certification standards are going to be the same for men as they are for women, we should all be placed on a level playing field. Now, in order to get closer to that, we'd need to consider the following.....

* Give the men oestrogen injections!

or

* Give the women testosterone injections!

or

* desex both genders who compete!!!

None of the above are acceptable scenarios. FACT, women have different capacities for physical strength as men IN GENERAL. There are a few genetically freaky women who can compete on a similar level to the average male competitor and there are a few unfortunate men who will never reach the level of a dedicated female competitor. That is why every other physically demanding sport has mens and womens competitions. Simple really.

Just my 0.02c worth.

[mobsterone]

I'd say no. The question was not of grip divisions etc. After all that applies to our sport and the competitions which already allow for gender, age and weight differences. Ironmind's certification scheme, while worthy, does not represent the sport as a whole and if you look at the topic title it was about asking Ironmind to redefine how they list those that close different levels of IM grippers.

Again the sport already allows for what some are asking - it's Ironmind changing it's cert rules for gripper closes.

[Guest Bonzi]

hmmm.....well I guess I gave them more credit than that. But who knows maybe you guys are right. Women are WEAK period.

Well, I don't expect a midget to dunk either. If he or she did, I'd give them more respect than anyone else who ever did it, but I really don't have the right to expect that much. It's all relative to ourselves, anyway.

Is 5'7" considered a midget? http://www.nba.com/media/allstar2003/spud_webb_260x380.jpg

His hands are at least a foot above the rim. The impossible does not exist.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Bonzi

[dimeisgod]

You should consider the fact that there are also just less women who train grip in general.

And if they would make a different certification for women why not for teenagers and men with hands under 7" and men with hands above 8".. it would never end.

IMO Ironmind should leave the certification as is, and let the #3 remain a tremendous goal for everyone. and let every person deal with the genetic differences in his own way.

I wouldn't want Ironmind to make a 3 or 4 easier so that I could certify faster. I would just rather work extra hard.

some people who reached a 2.5 probably worked harder than some who closed a 3 but does that mean their 2.5 should equal a 3?

-Jonathan.

[jsmiley]

I'm right there with the #2 and #2.5 cert for women, I feel that a #3 close by a woman would be very much equivalent to a man closing a number 4.

And why not give women a list, it's not going to take credit away from anyone, and anything to bring more attention to the sport is a great thing.