Us Championships - 2008

[climber511]

I am certainly not an elite bender, never claimed to be.

If someone had a 3 event bending competition (or 4 as I think Vertical is a legit style as well) - would I go - sure why not?

Would I have a chance in beating Mike - come on - be serious here - he's top of the heap for sure - I'd get slaughtered - only a couple guys in the world would have a chance against him - he makes me proud to be a Geezer!! (even if he is pretty young)

I had bending at my contest - it was reverse style - I thought it went well. That's what started all this. Mike asked for comments and no one would step forward and say what they thought except me (chickens). Actually Jedd brought forth his style and he has said he won't use it or allow it again. I think getting it out in the open is a good thing even if I am getting killed here - it's still best to talk these things out and get them resolved.

Next Gripmas - will I have bending - who knows - this time I choose reverse because it seemed to be the most popular style - if that changes by Dec - you may well see something else - perhaps DU - too far away for me to decide. I'm sure that at my contest there won't be two bending events, only one but others are free to have more of course..

Altering what Pat set out??? I've watched every video of Pat I can find - seen him in person quite a few times and not once did he ever grab one hand with the other so what am I watering down here? I believe I am the one arguing for a closer bend to Pat's style than anyone else - I've watched Dennis several times as well as whatever old timers I can find - no hand grabs there either. I didn't even see Jedd grab his during the contest - he was showing it to me afterwards.

Gazza - you're big on the history and their styles of bending and other than David, may know more about them than anyone - has anyone ever used this style before?

[Jedd Johnson]

There's plenty of rules in Strongman that have been added because someone "got away" with something once. The Kazmaier rule on Stones, The Pfister rule on Farmers, the little short English dude that used the duct tape ring on the husafell stone. There's more.

Jedd is an honorable guy & if people disagree with something he does, he would (and did) stop. I haven't even watched the vid, but as I said, if Jedd stopped using the form, that's that.

I'm not personally a big fan of reverse or DU, as I never train them & I have wrists like a little girl.

Like John said, the hand grab is like many other variations that have come up in other sports too and it will be up to the promoter to allow them or not.

[gazza]

I am certainly not an elite bender, never claimed to be.

If someone had a 3 event bending competition (or 4 as I think Vertical is a legit style as well) - would I go - sure why not?

Would I have a chance in beating Mike - come on - be serious here - he's top of the heap for sure - I'd get slaughtered - only a couple guys in the world would have a chance against him - he makes me proud to be a Geezer!! (even if he is pretty young)

I had bending at my contest - it was reverse style - I thought it went well. That's what started all this. Mike asked for comments and no one would step forward and say what they thought except me (chickens). Actually Jedd brought forth his style and he has said he won't use it or allow it again. I think getting it out in the open is a good thing even if I am getting killed here - it's still best to talk these things out and get them resolved.

Fully agree with you completely and i aint trying to kill you completely mate I was ganged upon for my views on wrapping but i said my piece just like you are doing here a man should be strong enough to stand behind what he says there are lots of others that load the gun and let others fire the bullets tho the internet doesnt always allow one to express oneself properly all the time and sometimes people are to quick to judge what is being said but thats how it is sometimes then there are the other forums which like to stare the shit behind the scenes those are the real chickens

Next Gripmas - will I have bending - who knows - this time I choose reverse because it seemed to be the most popular style - if that changes by Dec - you may well see something else - perhaps DU - too far away for me to decide. I'm sure that at my contest there won't be two bending events, only one but others are free to have more of course..

Chris like i said in my previous post mate its upto the organisers to put what events they want to in there comps if i dont like the events simple i have a choice to enter or not.

Altering what Pat set out??? I've watched every video of Pat I can find - seen him in person quite a few times and not once did he ever grab one hand with the other so what am I watering down here? I believe I am the one arguing for a closer bend to Pat's style than anyone else - I've watched Dennis several times as well as whatever old timers I can find - no hand grabs there either. I didn't even see Jedd grab his during the contest - he was showing it to me afterwards.

Chris ive been into bending alot longer than sopme but also not as long as others on here Pat originally penned the rules i was around then we went from braced bending 60ds etc and decided it was more a test of the feat to bend it unbraced so thats how it came about here on the board and we used T-towels or canvass/denim to bend with this was reverse style DO was just on the horizon then with Pat and Gavin Holle now since this i have seen T-Towels replaced by leather then leather and ironmind wraps or double leather wraps etc and reverse and DU Style bends have gone from a full bend of upto 2inches between the legs to be counted as legit to now only 40-45 degrees.These changes have been made because of competition or to accomodate competitions and then the bending lists yet this place is called the gripboard should it now be called the grip competition board.

Eric had certain rules forced upon him otherwise i think we would still be bending with a single wrap now we have bastard bars and ironmind reds that are all over the place yet people are then put on lists with the same ranking[no disrespect here intented just an observation]If you or i are bending a bastard bar or red thats calibtated at 450 say then the next batch is calibrated at 350 and someone bends those should he be on the same reconition/position on that list as the others the bar he bent was 100 lbs less not his fault but you see were i am comeing from competition and lists is about creating a level playing field how can it be if ex ammount of people say bend a mag only to then find out that Big Steve and others bent harder stock yet there not rated on the lists etc say with the KOAB bars pat bent the harder stock Eric calibrated yet others havent am i the only one that thinks theres something wrong with this or like Chris pointed out above are others to chicken shit to comment so long as we remain civil and not resort to being called pussies or C-*%TS i cant see the problem its just a healthy debate

I now see the rules constantly getting changed to suit contest environments yet like i said is this what this forum is all about shure its apart of it but not the be all and end all.

People have there say about grippers,the pinch,v-bar etc and they have been standardised you have the mash monster certs,the euro pinch apparatus and the lgc and fbbc v-bars yet no standards for bending with stock all over the plce.

If there are problems with grippers,pinch or v-bar etc its usually debated and ironed out rationally yet BENDING since pat penned it has gone by the wayside shure Eric has done what he can and calibrates what he can and does the lists etc but then you have alot of the organisers changeing stuff to suit them why not set up a bending pannel its definately popular enough and let them decide rule changes etc people that are elit in bending i think have earned that right people like Booyah who here is a better all rounder .

No DISRESPECT compared to Booyah and other Elite benders what have you Chris,David Horne Bob Lipinski etc bent tough stuff shure but hardly Elite its abit like me going on the gripper threads and commenting on Heaths or other Elite grippers closes shure i have an opinion but i just wouldnt use it in that situation cause i feel i am not qualified to give out advise that changes rules there etc no bending i feel thats a different matter.

Gazza - you're big on the history and their styles of bending and other than David, may know more about them than anyone - has anyone ever used this style before?

Chris

Pat was is credited with the Reverse style did he invent it who knows what alot of the old timers tried and it would have been more than one style if they were smart but Slim has said that he never saw anyone use reverse before pat so that adds weight to pat if not being the 1st then he certainly did popularise it i have not seen anyone else use it the way we use it today unbraced but i have come across pictures of earlier benders with there hands in that possition on bars but i have seen it done in any old videos.

Jedd has above average sized hands not huge but bigger than average he is useing his hands to his advantage should mark felix no go and cut 2inches off of his fingers and thumbs and do the RT lift again for it to be fair he is only working with what god gave him no if that was down to the aparratus thats different Jedd is not useing any advantage other than his hands and uptil now no rule change has been applied so i see him as useing his hands to his advantage if he and others want to change the rules to stop him useing that advantage then that opens up all other stuff do we then have to put marks labels etc on a bar and if you dont grip the bar on those marks etc its a failed bend do in th case of reverse style say a person that uses a slight bit of prognation/supination insted of all just perfect horizontal to downward pressure is that a failed bend we are going into dangerous waters.

Control the things we can eg:-the steel EG:- by being more consistant with batch testing etc then the other stuff set up a panel and discuss it democratically let everyone have there say and move on and any rule changes use a panel or take a vote as its all are hobby/sport.

These are my feelings and i mean no disrespect to anyone i am very pashionate about my hobby and i say it like it is from the heart.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Once again I have to agree with Gazza on this one. I can understand a lot of the rules and the reasons for them BUT lets not become rule Nazis. BTW Chris, this is not directed at you Like Gary said we're treading dangerous waters. If you put a rule in place regarding hand position during a bend it would only get in the way. In my opinion it's a frivolous arguement

[stew2]

Wow I hadn't payed much attention the thread last week or so till now. The tech in question isn't agianst the rules but who in the heck knows what those are cause no one has gotten together and set up rules for a tech to be use in every contest yet.We have rules but know one has made a concensesus on what to follow.I talked to Chris the day after the contest on the phone on the way home and asked him if he noticed it because I did and tryed it and ripped a chunck of hyde out of my hand doing it. I slipped because my hands are large enough to get a good lock I was only on the tips. I asked him if he thought it was much of an advantage I thought it might be if you were able tlo pull it off obviously I couldn't and because of the hole in my hand got a big goose egg for the event. I don't think it's wrong because don't really know whats right do I think it's an edge probaly don't know for sure. Do I think Jedd was trying to cheat no he's is just plain strong especially in reverse bending I think he does it not even realizing he is. If you watch him in the video the main part of the bend is done hands apart which is just palin amazing for that steel in reverse. So all we have to do is talkit out decide (who ever that may be take a vote or poll or just leave it up to the event organizers) what is accepted and what isn't and do it. Far as bending do what you want if your going to compete follow what ever rules the comp has. I just wish I could bend what Jedd does with or without fingers interlocked but I have a far way to go so don't hold your breath. Heck I stll have enough problems just wrapping my steel .

I liked Josh's idea if we want to test wrist strenght lets do some sort of lever or weaver stick coarse then your right back to what rules to follow for that. So to conclude bend if youwant heck do what ever you want it's fun. If you want to compete do that it's kinda funto but get use to rules because if you look at anyother sport in the world that is contested at evetns their will be some and some are alot more strict than any I've seen on here yet. My 2 cents well not even really worht that. Bythe way I think it was pretty telling how stand up a guy Jedd was that he brought it to the table without anyone even asking him I was going to save it till the next time I saw him but hey here it is so hats off to Jedd now could you loan me some strength you've got some you don't need don't ya.

[Bob Lipinski]

Gazza-

I really don't see most of of trying to change the rules. Hell, I used FBBC rules for all of my comps, reverse rules are BHSA rules which are cut and paste from Pat's rules.

If you want to be involved, do something. If you want a comp with 3 styles of bending Booyah, hold one! The people who make the contests are involved in setting the rules out of necessity. If we invited everyone to voice their opinion, there would be a bigger clusterFour score and seven years ago I am the MAN because I swear and I want everyone to know how manly I am by using profanity. than there already is and even less would get done.

The reason there are consistent rules about other events is that 1-2 people decided what they should be. They asked for open opinion at times, but most rules were set in place by ultimately a small number.

Lists are fun. But if you want to know who is the best, show up on the same day and bend the same stuff. Otherwise you are just guessing.

[Booyah!!!]

Thank You for the replies and discussion Guys My real motivation behind bringing up the additional Bending in Comps, especially US Championships is/was to help create a broader field of interest for the growth of our sport. Thanks for the support and honest feedback about the matter.

Gripping and Bending Together KICK ASS Booyah!!!

[John Beatty]

Just a little note. I completely agree with what Gazza (and others) is saying about the individual batches of steel & should someone be credited the same for a lighter batch than a heavier one. The harder bar should technically be higher on the list, but the labor involved for me (or anyone) trying to keep track of who bought what batch when & who sent someone a few bars out of their stock, and who held onto some stock from the five times they've ordered, so on & so forth, would be crazy. For the truest gauge of who's best, Gazza's route would be best, but damn near impossible to track, unless we had someone tracking all the IM & FBBC stock, lots & orders, and probably numbering each individual bar. For example, I recently found some Reds that someone sent me 3-4 years ago in the bottom of a dresser drawer. It would be great to know every bar's strength, but short of individually labeling every bar & testing every single 12' length I buy, I don't see an accurate way to do it. I just don't have the time to consider it.

If someone wants to undertake this monumental task, maybe starting a new list would be a good way to do it. It's a fine idea, just near impossible, I think. As ideas roll out of my head as I type, maybe someone would take up a collection from members for a calibrated stock bank. Say get 100pc of certain batches, store it, label or color code it, then people could get a cert pack with different strengths from both companies. Again, I can barely keep up with all the stuff I do, so not me, but just throwing it out there. Make it a super strict list just so everyone would be happy. If you prefer to cert with the more general IM or FBBC lists, then do so, and the Gripboard list could be the definitive list for the per batch, overall. You could define it by strength of bar & bend time, i.e. if two guys bend the same bar, the fastest sits higher on the list. Make the rules strict, with 12" x 4" wraps, either IM or FBBC, one set start to finish, no unwrap, or allow crush pads, as you like.

This post is not intended at all to aggravate the situation, I'm just trying to offer the most logical way I could come up with (at this moment) to smooth things out.

[EricMilfeld]

Well said, John.

When I first started the list I didn't anticipate the degree to which some of the FBBC stock would vary. The rules for the lists do mention the reserved right to check the calibration rating of any steel in question. I've already decided that going forward this rule would have to come into play with some of the cert bends. That new nasty hex is a good example. A new Big is much tougher than an old Huge.

I've also considered starting the lists anew when we get an official organization and using only calibrated steel bent at contests for the lists, just like the pinch list.

[bencrush]

Eric, does that mean you'll kick all the old uncalibrated bends off the cert lists when that happens?

[MalachiMcMullen]

Well said, John.

When I first started the list I didn't anticipate the degree to which some of the FBBC stock would vary. The rules for the lists do mention the reserved right to check the calibration rating of any steel in question. I've already decided that going forward this rule would have to come into play with some of the cert bends. That new nasty hex is a good example. A new Big is much tougher than an old Huge.

I've also considered starting the lists anew when we get an official organization and using only calibrated steel bent at contests for the lists, just like the pinch list.

Well, the guys on the lists may not be all that ecstatic but I like the ideas guys!!!

[vikingsrule92]

Eric, does that mean you'll kick all the old uncalibrated bends off the cert lists when that happens?

I personelly think and hope he'll keep the old lists, and just start fresh ones. Sort of like the transition from the old singular list to the new length based lists.

[John Beatty]

Well said, John.

When I first started the list I didn't anticipate the degree to which some of the FBBC stock would vary. The rules for the lists do mention the reserved right to check the calibration rating of any steel in question. I've already decided that going forward this rule would have to come into play with some of the cert bends. That new nasty hex is a good example. A new Big is much tougher than an old Huge.

I've also considered starting the lists anew when we get an official organization and using only calibrated steel bent at contests for the lists, just like the pinch list.

Excellent idea, Eric, that would eliminate most of the guesswork & the bulk of calibrations for individual batches & trying to keep everyone's stock sorted. You could even use the old lists for non competition bends that would be uncalibrated, and just be by standard IM, FBBC or Gripboard cert rules, and the new list for calibrated contest bends, by the finalized bending rules only.

One thing on standardized DU bending rules I'd like to suggest is the longer timeframe like my certs. If you drop down to the 1 min time, a lot (the bulk) of the really monster bends will be wiped out, as it seems to take a lot more time to finish the big bars with the check, hit again, check, hit again pattern.

Edited January 28, 2008 by John Beatty

[jad]

Eric, does that mean you'll kick all the old uncalibrated bends off the cert lists when that happens?

I sure hope not. That will infuriate A LOT of people.

[EricMilfeld]

Well said, John.

When I first started the list I didn't anticipate the degree to which some of the FBBC stock would vary. The rules for the lists do mention the reserved right to check the calibration rating of any steel in question. I've already decided that going forward this rule would have to come into play with some of the cert bends. That new nasty hex is a good example. A new Big is much tougher than an old Huge.

I've also considered starting the lists anew when we get an official organization and using only calibrated steel bent at contests for the lists, just like the pinch list.

Excellent idea, Eric, that would eliminate most of the guesswork & the bulk of calibrations for individual batches & trying to keep everyone's stock sorted. You could even use the old lists for non competition bends that would be uncalibrated, and just be by standard IM, FBBC or Gripboard cert rules, and the new list for calibrated contest bends, by the finalized bending rules only.

One thing on standardized DU bending rules I'd like to suggest is the longer timeframe like my certs. If you drop down to the 1 min time, a lot (the bulk) of the really monster bends will be wiped out, as it seems to take a lot more time to finish the big bars with the check, hit again, check, hit again pattern.

Good ideas, John.

Eric, does that mean you'll kick all the old uncalibrated bends off the cert lists when that happens?

I sure hope not. That will infuriate A LOT of people.

Josh, I would probably either archive the existing list or continue it with the new requirement. But I certainly wouldn't just wipe out the existing bends.

[bencrush]

Thanks for the clarification Eric.

[jad]

Well said, John.

When I first started the list I didn't anticipate the degree to which some of the FBBC stock would vary. The rules for the lists do mention the reserved right to check the calibration rating of any steel in question. I've already decided that going forward this rule would have to come into play with some of the cert bends. That new nasty hex is a good example. A new Big is much tougher than an old Huge.

I've also considered starting the lists anew when we get an official organization and using only calibrated steel bent at contests for the lists, just like the pinch list.

Excellent idea, Eric, that would eliminate most of the guesswork & the bulk of calibrations for individual batches & trying to keep everyone's stock sorted. You could even use the old lists for non competition bends that would be uncalibrated, and just be by standard IM, FBBC or Gripboard cert rules, and the new list for calibrated contest bends, by the finalized bending rules only.

One thing on standardized DU bending rules I'd like to suggest is the longer timeframe like my certs. If you drop down to the 1 min time, a lot (the bulk) of the really monster bends will be wiped out, as it seems to take a lot more time to finish the big bars with the check, hit again, check, hit again pattern.

Good ideas, John.

Eric, does that mean you'll kick all the old uncalibrated bends off the cert lists when that happens?

I sure hope not. That will infuriate A LOT of people.

Josh, I would probably either archive the existing list or continue it with the new requirement. But I certainly wouldn't just wipe out the existing bends.

Good to know, thanks Eric.

[jad]

Is there going to be a small-hand division at nationals (small hand national champion)?

Thanks,

Josh

[bencrush]

Good question Josh. My hand varies from day to day.

[jad]

Good question Josh. My hand varies from day to day.

You're not the only one

[odin]

Is there going to be a small-hand division at nationals (small hand national champion)?

Thanks,

Josh

I thought that was one of the more attractive features of this event; the two divisions.

[opnsysme]

My $.02 no bending and 2 inch V-bar.

[MalachiMcMullen]

My $.02 no bending and 2 inch V-bar.

Ha, we'll see how well that goes down. Those are... somewhat popular events

[jad]

I wouldn't mind seeing sledge levering vs. the bending. Jedd said it was easy to judge the way Dave did it and with the advancements in technique, reverse isn't as pure a wrist test anymore.

[MalachiMcMullen]

I wouldn't mind seeing sledge levering vs. the bending. Jedd said it was easy to judge the way Dave did it and with the advancements in technique, reverse isn't as pure a wrist test anymore.

Seconded