Support Grip For 20 Rep Deadlifts

[climber511]

I doubt there is a one size fits all answer to a question like this. Some people have trouble with 20 rep squats - I'm one of them - as I tire, my form tends to break down into a good morning and become dangerous. Over the years I've done tons of 20 rep squats but I still have the form breakdown issue that I've had since I started. On the other hand - my DL doesn't tend to break down as I tire so much. Would it be as productive? Good question but I really doubt that it would - it doesn't involve the overall range of motion or the use of as much total muscle mass. Perhaps a trap bar DL as you mentioned would come closer because it is more of a squat anyway. It's just that broad generalizations cannot be applied all across the board to everyone - too many differences in people.

[MalachiMcMullen]

Perhaps for 20 rep deads to be as effective as a widowmaker set of squats you'd have to make sure that you get your butt very low before you start pulling. Think Michail Koklayev(sp?), he always dips down super low and starts pushing with his legs while his thighs are at parallel. I don't see but a handful of people who DL that way so for most the answer may be no. But then again I also don't think that a squat is comparable to a deadlift, squats use the back to rest on while DL's use the back as one of the primary movers. Squats take back strength for sure but you aren't going to get a strong back purely by squatting. As Chris said earlier though, the mental aspect is a big one. IMO it's the single most important factor in lifting, you could go into the gym with just enough strength to DL 500, but unless you've already convinced yourself that that 500 is going up you have a good chance at failing. It's that make or break mindset.

[timiacobucci]

Well I gave it a try for the first time today, and I said I would report back. I got back in the groove of the 20 rep squat workout after doing it for the last couple weeks and can say that 20 rep deads are just as terribly hard as the squats are. Except my grip gave out.

Disappointing, but holy hell is it a grip workout. I dropped it at 15 reps and took a 20 second rest and then finished the 5 more. I started with lots of chalk and a mixed grip. I could barely unclench my hands my muscles were contracting so hard after I dropped it. I will mix this in the middle of the week in place of squats now and work up with the same weight until I can hold onto it for 20.

I was mainly wondering about the grip aspect when I posted on here but since there was a bit of discussion over the effectiveness of the exercise itself I will just say I think it is seriously valuable. It is nothing like high rep singles or max pulls. I only used 255 to start and I probably could use more if it were not for my grip. Imagining John Beatty doing twice this frightens me.

The rest at lockout is just as strenuous and requires just as much will power as the squats do. The stabilization and core tension needed I feel are even higher than the squats because the weight is off center out in front of you. It feels like the weight is trying to rip your arms off at the end as you tire. I got a muscle spasm in my ass at the end trying to hold the lockout, try to get this level of glute activation with squats and then try this for comparison. I was also heaving for breath like the squats and felt like I might vomit, so the conditioning aspect of the squats is still there as well. It was awesome in a torturously masochistic kind of way. If you love/fear the end of the 20 rep squats this is a worthy variation, give it a whirl.

One caveat though, I feel you probably will have to drop allot of weight to get 20 reps so it probably won't challenge your back strength a whole lot, but you do need to already have a good feel of how your form breaks down in the deadlift and how much and where you can allow your back to bend before you should bail on the lift. If you are new to deads it is easy to want to stiff leg it as you tire but you must concentrate on lowering and raising the bar close to your shins and intiaing the drive with your legs and not your lower back. I think most people that are used to deadlifting will not have a problem with this though.

[TelegraphKey]

Imagining John Beatty doing twice this frightens me.

Fo' real!!!!

The rest at lockout is just as strenuous and requires just as much will power as the squats do. The stabilization and core tension needed I feel are even higher than the squats because the weight is off center out in front of you. It feels like the weight is trying to rip your arms off at the end as you tire. I got a muscle spasm in my ass at the end trying to hold the lockout, try to get this level of glute activation with squats and then try this for comparison. I was also heaving for breath like the squats and felt like I might vomit, so the conditioning aspect of the squats is still there as well. It was awesome in a torturously masochistic kind of way. If you love/fear the end of the 20 rep squats this is a worthy variation, give it a whirl.

I love this report. I'm getting amped just thinking about it.

One question, though: Can you please explain exactly how long or how you do each rep? I think I read earlier you take like 4-5 minutes to complete a 20-rep set? I've never actually read Supersquats, and when I have done these things, I tend to just try to strict reps, but I think I sort of fly through the set.

[mbcx6pmw]

Interesting. Missed this thread first time round. I've done 20 rep squats Mon + Fri, 20 rep deads Wed in the past. Always treated the deads like 20 singles though, never though of 'resting' in the lockout position, that would be tough!

[timiacobucci]

One question, though: Can you please explain exactly how long or how you do each rep? I think I read earlier you take like 4-5 minutes to complete a 20-rep set? I've never actually read Supersquats, and when I have done these things, I tend to just try to strict reps, but I think I sort of fly through the set.

You use a weight heavier than you can do 20 straight with. More like 10 but you rest between the reps towards the end so you can just barely do the next rep. Watch the video of Jesse Marunde that I posted earlier it is a great example.

Interesting. Missed this thread first time round. I've done 20 rep squats Mon + Fri, 20 rep deads Wed in the past. Always treated the deads like 20 singles though, never though of 'resting' in the lockout position, that would be tough!

Yes that is was I was planning to do too now. It is totally different than singles. I wasn't sure if it would just completely fatigue your back trying to hold it and rest which would not allow you to really continue but the focus of the muscles at lockout and during the lift seem to be a bit different so I think it works ok. You really notice which muscles your using allot more with this method too. My ass has never been this sore.

Also my lower back is pretty sore but I feel that is an extension of pushing the hips in and locking out at the top, not because of form break down, I am not usually this sore in this area from deadlifts. So the lockout could fatigue your lower back so it is extra important not to stiff leg it at all towards the end when your form wants to break down, rember to drive with the legs if you want to try this.

[TelegraphKey]

Doing my ten-rep pr for 20 resting reps would be absolute hell. I'm pretty scared, but mebbe I'll try this sucker. Thanks.

Edit: btw, seriously, this really must help your supporting grip for deadlift. All other recommendations for increasing grip for thick-bars always involve high-rep deadlifts (with axle, RT, whatever) so I don't see why the same wouldn't carry over to regular 1-1/16" regular weightlifting bars.

Edited November 30, 2007 by TelegraphKey