burkhardmacht Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Great idea! A worldwide list would be awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubgeezer Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I don't even care if the rankings would be subject. That way, we can enjoy taking pot shots at whoever came up with them. I remember as a kid, Ring Magazine used to publish Rankings annually, and I think the founder of the magazine, Natt Fleischer, used to do them himself, while at an advanced age. He would have several "tiers" of rankings, and he had M. Ali in a class by himself. The rankings would change every year, but went very deep. Track and Field News does an annual ranking of each different event in track and field. They go Top 10 world, and then list top Americans after that (if not already on the world list). There are lists, and there are rankings, and they are two very different things. Sure, the more stuff, the merrier, depending on who wants to be involved in a thankless job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Compiling a list for individual events such as Mikael's from existing data - while certainly a thankless job - is accurate based on past events. It seems as if enough such lists were put together for all events, then you could take the numbers for the events being used in a contest - you could predict who should win - but I sure wouldn't want to put my money down based on it. Lots of things seem to happen come time to stand and deliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted September 13, 2007 Author Share Posted September 13, 2007 I could easily do something based on best lifts, but there are two objections I have there: 1. Humidity will make or break friction lifts. Anyone who suffered through the heat at my Michigan Grip INvitational has firsthand experience. Yes, we can still keep records, but sometimes conditions effect everyone at an event across the board and it is easy to see. 2. I do not want grip to go the way of powerlifting. If I have any say, I want this sport to be about winning, not getting some "all time record" at a contest you promote at your gym with your wife and dad judging. An exaggeration of course, but powerlifting is filled with strong guys who save their best efforts for local no name meets because of friendlier conditions and judging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Why not do rankings over a 3 year period. Lots more comps to get info from. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 1. Humidity will make or break friction lifts. Anyone who suffered through the heat at my Michigan Grip INvitational has firsthand experience. Yes, we can still keep records, but sometimes conditions effect everyone at an event across the board and it is easy to see. Bob, that's called luck. Conditions are what they are. Don't let them factor into rankings. That would be like giving a football team a break because everytime they played at home it was raining and they play on grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKlein Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 "Why not do rankings over a 3 year period. Lots more comps to get info from. David" Good idea David. i was going to recommend every two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I think you should all just bow down and accept my superior age, wisdom, strength, and good looks - it would make this so much more simple Well. one outta four ain't so bad anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiMcMullen Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 (edited) Why not do rankings over a 3 year period. Lots more comps to get info from.David I think that's a fantastic idea! No breaks for conditions, as Jedd said they are what they are, it's just good or bad luck, and I would keep separate lists for each events like the one's we have now. I think your system will work Bob but it'll work alot better in the future when more people compete and there are more comp's. Edited September 13, 2007 by MalachiMcMullen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted September 13, 2007 Author Share Posted September 13, 2007 Jedd, I think you misunderstood the intention of my post. I want it to be based on the comparisons between two people at the same contest, rather than a poll of best lifts. Whether or not lifts suffer for any reason at a particular comp, the rating shouldn't be about adding your PR's but competing and winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I had asked Dione Wessels what her system was back when this thread was started and she was traveling at the time, but she did get back with me when she returned. Here is what the NAS page has for their ranking system. Source: http://www.nastrongmaninc.com/rules.asp Rules for National Amateur Strongman Rankings 1. Purpose for Rankings. These rankings are based on a system that attempts to predict which competitors are currently the top amateur strongman competitors. If the rankings worked perfectly, the number one ranked competitor would beat the number two competitor, who would beat the number three ranked competitor, and so on, if they were to all compete against one another in a contest of average size - 10-15 competitors. Because strongman is a sport that consists of over thirty disciplines, because some competitors have never competed against one another, and because competitors have good and bad days, this will not be the case every time. After all, otherwise why have the contests? However, generally a higher ranked competitor should beat a lower ranked competitor in most contests. The rankings self adjust over time to the extent this proves not to be the case. Note that some competitors will have a lower ranking than their placement at a contest would indicate, but they have not year done two qualifying contests. As soon as they do at least two qualifying contests their ranking will be more reflective of their ability. 2. Basis for Rankings. Points will be assigned to competitors based on placement at qualifying contests, subject to the conditions described in these rules. Competitors will be ranked based on point accumulation at the time that the rankings are updated. Updates will be done periodically, but typically twice per year. 3. Points at Nationals. To earn points at Nationals, you must place in the top thirteen. For example, at the 2004 Nationals, there were 37 competitors. The top 13 received points with the exception of the winner, who is now pro. Second place at 2004 Nationals yielded 13 points, third place yielded 12 points, et. cetera. Giving points to the top 13, causes Nationals to be weighted at 130% of the value of a large Pro-Am contest. Nationals is ranked higher because it is typically a bigger show with a deeper field. Rankings are not based exclusively on Nationals and Nationals is not weighted more substantially than it is for several reasons, including: 1) there are now numerous Pro-Ams around the country where top level competitors can go to attempt to earn a pro card--for this reason, and for financial reasons some top level competitors do not attend Nationals; and 2) Nationals is a very large show and one bad placement in one event can drastically affect placement and weighting Nationals would skew the purpose for the rankings as described above. 4. Points at Pro-Ams. To earn points at Pro-Am contests competitors must place in the top ten amateurs, or if there are less than 14 amateur competitors at the Pro-Am contest, you must place in the top 75% of the amateur field. This means that at most Pro-Am contests the winner will go pro, the second place finisher gets 10 points, the third place finisher gets 9 points, et. cetera. At any Pro-Am contest where there are less than 7 heavyweight amateur competitors, only one-half the amount of points that would otherwise be awarded will be awarded, and you must place in the top 50% of the amateur field to receive points. If there are less than 4 competitors in the heavyweight amateur field, no points will be awarded. Full points are not awarded at Pro-Ams with poor attendance because those contests are not good indicators of how one would do at a larger show that is attended by many top ranked competitors. 5. Subsequent Adjustments to Points When Competitors Earn Pro Status. More weight will be given to contests that were attended by competitors that were amateurs at the time, but are now heavyweight pros. This means that at any contest where competitors that were amateurs at that contest, but are now heavyweight pros, placed above all competitors at that contest that remain amateurs, the placement of those Pros is not considered for purposes of calculating the points earned at that contest. Note that at all qualifying contests it will be typical for at least one pro (the winner) to be dropped from the calculations because of this rule. Boston of 2004 or the May 2004 Contest-Me contest are good examples of this rule because at each of those contests, the top three finishers are now pro. This means that for purposes of point calculations, the fourth place finisher at those contests effectively finished first. 6. Expiration of Points. Earned Points will be halved one year after they are earned to keep rankings current. Points are eliminated two years after they are earned. 7. Only Top Two Placements are Counted. For purposes of establishing ranking, points are taken from a competitor's top two finishes in terms of points earned, including up to one Nationals contest. For example, if a competitor has done three qualifying contests earning him 2 points, 5 points, and 10 points, respectively, he will have 15 points for purposes of establishing his ranking. If this competitor later does another qualifying contest where he earns 10 points, then he will at that time have 20 points. This penalizes a competitor who only does one big contest per year, but does not let competitors who attend many contests to excessively increase their ranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Bump - Since 2007 is now over - how did things work out? I kind of enjoyed this idea - be fun to see it continue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokhugo Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Bob: very interesting! keep up your good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Damn, since somebody liked it, let me dig up my old stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Bump - Since 2007 is now over - how did things work out? I kind of enjoyed this idea - be fun to see it continue! Chris just wants to see if he finished top 10 Geezer Power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climber511 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Bump - Since 2007 is now over - how did things work out? I kind of enjoyed this idea - be fun to see it continue! Chris just wants to see if he finished top 10 Geezer Power Hey Chad - how's things going for you - hope your Strongman training is going well and that new baby is letting you get some sleep now and then. Tell your folks I said hello please. Oh - I was hoping for top 15 actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Bump - Since 2007 is now over - how did things work out? I kind of enjoyed this idea - be fun to see it continue! Chris just wants to see if he finished top 10 Geezer Power Hey Chad - how's things going for you - hope your Strongman training is going well and that new baby is letting you get some sleep now and then. Tell your folks I said hello please. Oh - I was hoping for top 15 actually Things are going well with my strongman training...I believe that I am on target to make a good showing in Iowa (I hope). Yes, my little girl is 6 months old now and she keeps us VERY BUSY! I will tell my folks that you said hello. Take Care Buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twig Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 6 Months? That's better training than StrongMan! I expect good things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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