Timmy Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 " We all know how easy it would be to beat Martin in grippers both hands. " I think Larson, David Erive would dust Martin at grippers on both hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burkhardmacht Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 It's no question that Martin is a strong guy - especially in the grippers and 2hand pinch. That's really worldclass. But an allround grip strenght competition does not only consist of these two events and it's a "bit" questionable if the events of the last three Euros fit perfectly to the idea of an allround grip development. Think about blob load or any fatbar events. It seems to me that it's necessary to think about two hand categories at the Euros to give those events a chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 My personal favorite to beat them ALL in a grip contest: Steve Gardener Your name is now at the top of my xmas card list I thought I had already beaten Tommy and David Morton in competition?? GGC 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 It's no question that Martin is a strong guy - especially in the grippers and 2hand pinch.That's really worldclass. But an allround grip strenght competition does not only consist of these two events and it's a "bit" questionable if the events of the last three Euros fit perfectly to the idea of an allround grip development. Think about blob load or any fatbar events. It seems to me that it's necessary to think about two hand categories at the Euros to give those events a chance! Unless every competition uses only those lifts which we call standardized and someone works out some formula which allows for small and big hands there will always be a means by which people will not be able to make a proper comparison. With some aspects of grip - wrist strength for example - the number of lifts / events are less than for others. The only way round that is top lengthen competitions to 6, 7 or even more lifts. Given that if a 5 lift comp can last as little as 4.5 hours (British 2006) or as long as 11 hours (Euros in 2004) god only those how much longer an event with more lifts would be. One way round is to check the records lists. Look at what Tommy has done in say five 'standard' events and then at what Nick, David, Shawn etc etc have done. I do ok on that comparison for example. Even just the lifts which all have done and if they have their name down gives you a meaningful comparison. All the lifts have, as I understand it, been done in competition. Tommy is a 200+ pincher, Clay is - I think - behind him , Martin regularly pulls 100-kilos / 220lbs + in training as does Nick and David (how about plank pinches last week with 115-kilos). My best is a little more than Tommys but not in competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaner Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I don't think Heslep has sub 8" hands, and the only thing the Europeans seem definately to have locked down is the most competitors with sub 8" hands. We just don't have that many small handed guys over here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) I don't think Heslep has sub 8" hands, and the only thing the Europeans seem definately to have locked down is the most competitors with sub 8" hands. We just don't have that many small handed guys over here.. So you basically admit that although there are more big handed guys living and competiting in the USA and most here seem to think big hands help... how come us small handed Europeans do so well (as does Tommy)? It's why I have argued that the hand size of a guy means next to nothing if he is prepared to work damn hard - again like Tommy. And yes Tommy is underrated. He is very, very good (except at getting out of straight-jackets at parties ha ha). Of course it could also mean we tape our hand length properly...?? Edited December 13, 2006 by mobsterone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Lipinski Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 2 reasons some of the Euro guys are better (thinking of Dave and Nick especially): 1. They have been training the events seriously for a lot longer time. Grip comps have only been big maybe the last 2-3 years here in the US. England has been having them for a long time. 2. They are very serious competitors, and show up to peak on contest day and win. I think more and more of the US guys are getting to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyg Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 instead of saying our guys are better, or this person can beat that person.......how bout they actually compete one day to see who is the best??? what a novel idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 You mean an attempt to get a world championships... or what about David Horne inviting anyone who had placed in the top three in competitions to his CoC event last year... oh so that has happened and no one wanted the first and only Steve McGranahan came to the second. I DID compete in the USA and beat several well-known names as per my earlier post. Steve came here and beat me by placing third to Nick and David. I think Steve had only lost once prior to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyg Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 You mean an attempt to get a world championships... or what about David Horne inviting anyone who had placed in the top three in competitions to his CoC event last year... oh so that has happened and no one wanted the first and only Steve McGranahan came to the second. I DID compete in the USA and beat several well-known names as per my earlier post. Steve came here and beat me by placing third to Nick and David. I think Steve had only lost once prior to that. obviously getting people to fly to halfway round the world is difficult...but i think it's the only way to find out the best of the best, instead of just throwing meaningless opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubthewonderscot Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 That means we need some sponsorship. I know my wife would not be the most understanding of me playing funny math with the family budget for a cross atlantic flight for a grip contest. She would instead submit me to an MHMR (mental health/mental retardation) office to get my head checked. In the esteemed minds of those on this board, is there any chance we could grow to the point of getting sponsor ship ala WSM to get these guys to compete? W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyg Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 That means we need some sponsorship. I know my wife would not be the most understanding of me playing funny math with the family budget for a cross atlantic flight for a grip contest. She would instead submit me to an MHMR (mental health/mental retardation) office to get my head checked. In the esteemed minds of those on this board, is there any chance we could grow to the point of getting sponsor ship ala WSM to get these guys to compete? W perhaps someone knows a travel agent and can get cheap deals...maybe board members can contribute to get the best of the best together for a showdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedd Johnson Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Well if both hands are tested he is very hard to beat with the LGC standard events. Would be close though between him, Horne and McKinless as far as the Europeans are concerned. Nick in particular is about 10 per cent stronger in the vbar than Martin, whereas Horne is still better in the pinch. Anyway these three are definitely the top three in Europe.Harder to compare with the Americans as grip competitions in the US are moderately to extremely biased towards large hand size and all the three above have hands shorter than 8''. None of the sub-8'' hands grip guys in the US would currently stand a chance against Martin, Horne or Nick, based on what we have seen thus far (with the more common events such as grippers, two hand pinch, vbar, one hand deadlift and levering for example). Which events in the US contests are biased toward large handed athletes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaner Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 I don't think Heslep has sub 8" hands, and the only thing the Europeans seem definately to have locked down is the most competitors with sub 8" hands. We just don't have that many small handed guys over here.. So you basically admit that although there are more big handed guys living and competiting in the USA and most here seem to think big hands help... how come us small handed Europeans do so well (as does Tommy)? It's why I have argued that the hand size of a guy means next to nothing if he is prepared to work damn hard - again like Tommy. And yes Tommy is underrated. He is very, very good (except at getting out of straight-jackets at parties ha ha). Of course it could also mean we tape our hand length properly...?? I was just kidding, all this serious stuff I just think is funny. Us vs them, U.S. vs Europe, whatever, it will be really cool when all the big names get together, and I would have to agree with the European events and rules (well put together, standardized, good combination of events), and let the best man win, and I'd have to put my money on Tommy in the sub 8" (if he is) and Jedd in the 8"+, but it would be really cool if the overall best was a guy in the under 8" group. Won't be me, unless you have a ladies division and lack standards of what exactly a lady is! Might still get my ass handed to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinslater Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Im having a hard time understanding how all the us events are biased towards big handed athletes. ALso Tommy's pinch is world class and a world record is well within his reach on any piece of equipment. . . Austin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 The last GGC was an example of a grip competition in which it would have been extremely hard for someone with shorter hands to win. Blob lift by the face is extremely biased towards people with large hands. Nick McKinless and Martin Arildsson for example outclass me on the Euro pinch set up but I can easily outlift both on the blob as I have longer fingers. You are not going to like this but.... Tommy Heslep is a bit overrated by you people as far as non-trick allround grip competition goes. Even I could beat him in a contest with grippers, two hand pinch, vbar and a wrist and thick bar or blob event. In the Oz 2006 championship, my opening weight in the vbar was about 50lbs above Tommy's best in competition. He is clearly behind Horne, Nick and Martin allround and has certainly not shown world class strength on the euro pinch set up. If I were him I would be a little embarrased by all the hype that he has not asked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Horne Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 I hate all this U.S, v Europe shit, usualy started by one member here Anyway, my thought is there is great athletes on both sides of the Atlantic, and everyone knows who they are. Bob, You are right, we have been training our grip 'all-round' for a while now in the U.K., well I certainly have. Just like early strongman comps it was seen to be the way to go. I'm not sure where I am now in the rankings, as I haven't competed for a year and have just had surgery which may keep me out of action for a while, and next year I'll be 45. Over the last 15 years I've beaten a lot of athletes, the likes of Nick (4 times), Steve McGranahan, Martin Arildsson, Jim Wylie (4 times), Steve Gardener (5 times), Benny Wennberg, David Elmer (3 times), Dean Bolt (2 times), Kalle Lane (3 times), Steve Sherwood (2 times), Michael Daly (2 times), Florian Kellersmann, Frank Henritzi, Steve Angell, David Hurzeler, Johan Albrektsson, etc, etc. I also have one defeat against Benny and 3 against Steve Sherwood when the Brits contest was handicapped. I've competed over a very wide variety of events, and the contests events used to be changed yearly which I liked and it gave me new targets. If I was on form I'd love one last big champs against all the best americans, it would really light my fire. I am a competition lifter and usualy do my best on the lifting platform. I know Nick will want to beat me (we train together a lot), and I'll certainly give him a final chance against me before I wrap it up completely. I reckon there would be a good chance Nick could beat me now, but this can't negate all the wins I've had already. Keep training hard guys, you're doing some great things. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan McMillan Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 davidhorne = class Can't say it any simpler Jon@han Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinslater Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 David great post buddy and like others said a total class act. As regards to Tommy being overrated, I dont see how a #4 closer, 220 2-hand pinch, red nail bend etc is overrated. He is without a doubt one of the best in the world and a challenge to win any grip contest. You mentioned that you have beat him on a euro set and the v-bar. Im guessing Tommy doesnt train much or at all with those 2 implements. Give the guy the respect he deserves . . . Austin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Over the last 15 years I've beaten a lot of athletes, the likes of Nick (4 times), Steve McGranahan, Martin Arildsson.... Your victory over Martin at the 2004 Euro should perhaps be put into perspective. Martin did not want to compete as he had not done any training to speak of but Arne and I managed to convince him to compete as we wanted to get a full 12 man starting list. I have a vague memory of Arne adding him to the competitor list even before we actually asked Martin if he wanted to compete. I have beaten Martin as well in the past but that is not something I would brag about as he had just started with grip training. Beating Martin now is a whole different story than it was back in 2004. Maybe you could do it again or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 David great post buddy and like others said a total class act. As regards to Tommy being overrated, I dont see how a #4 closer, 220 2-hand pinch, red nail bend etc is overrated. He is without a doubt one of the best in the world and a challenge to win any grip contest. You mentioned that you have beat him on a euro set and the v-bar. Im guessing Tommy doesnt train much or at all with those 2 implements. Give the guy the respect he deserves . . . Austin Someone in this thread indicated that Tommy could beat any WR in pinch. He competed in both the 2005 and 2006 GGC and pinched about 90k on both occasions. This is clearly not world class so what are you going on about. It is not bad at all but a solid 10k+ less than Martin does in competitions for example. Being overrated by others have nothing to do with respect. Tommy seems to be a nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobsterone Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 I think Tommy competed in the 2004 GGC and pulled either 205 or 210 in the pinch on their set up (not Euro admittidly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 (edited) Yes he did more in the 2004 GGC but a comparison is more valid if we compare more recent results made on standardised equipment. No need to get all worked up about a discussion based on (competition) facts. I remember pointing out that Tommy had two wins and one draw against Dave Morton in grippers when numerous people hailed Dave as no 1 in grippers. Edited December 14, 2006 by Mikael Siversson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyg Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 i remember reading that tommy barely missed 220-230 on the euro pinch set-up at the 2005 ggc...can Jedd or Smitty or anyone who was there confirm this? That was over a year ago....i would imagine that he is stronger now. Mikael...why not come to the US, compete, beat everyone like you said you can, then you will have all the respect from us. Running your mouth is no way to gain respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siversson Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Mikael...why not come to the US, compete, beat everyone like you said you can, then you will have all the respect from us. Running your mouth is no way to gain respect. Exactly where did I say that I could beat everyone? Don't put words into my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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