Question On No Set Close

[pdoire]

I'd like to see some super wide ones made just to see if all the guys with huge hands could still no-set them.  For example, one with a  4.75" spread for the guy with 9" hands that tells the guy with 7" hands that it's it's a hand strength issue not handsize.  I know zero about machining grippers though so I don't even know if this could be done.

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I think there may be a way to settle this dispute. We have a competition.

The grippers would all be at some minimum handle width ..but large.

Lets say 3 1/4 plus...if possible. Then the competitors would have to give

their hand size ..or have it measured at the site, and we would note the

heaviest gripper they can close with a set. Now we would know each persons

hand size and what gripper they can close with a set for a base.

Then have them try no settiing the wide grippers..noting all results.

This info could then be cross referenced with the original hand size and strength

data to see if in fact the people with the larger hands truly no setted easier

or the people with the greater strength did it easier. Would be interesting to see this result.

[Scott Styles]

I'm going to do another gripper workout tonight or tomorrow. I'll try using my last 2 fingers to hold the 1 in place when I start the no-set and see if I can't get more leverage on it. Last night I was testing this with the Trainer, it may have been too easy to get a good feel. I'm also wondering if even when I do a set close I position the gripper too far back on my thumb pad for best leverage.

I'm sure if I could close a gripper with 2 or 3 fingers I could no set it. No doubt about that. But I think that I should be able to get very close to my best set close by refining my no-set approach. The grippers are so easy at the beginning, I ought to at least be able to get at my ring and pinky fingers in an ideal position.

Right now I've got a BBSA I can no-set (similar in close strength to the filed #1), and the hardest gripper I've set close is a PDA243. Both grippers are between the 1 and the 2, the BBSA is maybe a 1.2, the PDA243 a 1.5.

Another thing that helped me with getting more out of the no-set was cleaning the knurling out and oiling my #1. The clean knurling does a better job of biting into my thumb and staying in place. The oiling seemed to make the gripper easier.

I'm not sure what there is to debate about the effect hand size has on closing strength. A person with a hand closer to the optimal size for the grippers will be able to get closer to no-setting the strongest gripper they can close with a set. They have better leverage. But all someone with a smaller hand can do is attempt to minimize this advantage. I think good technique can go a long way in doing this.

[ishred]

no more on this arguement.

its easy for people with hand bigger than 7" to say its strength, not hand size.

thats like a 7 foot tall guy telling a 5 1/2 foot guy its easy to dunk, you just have to get stronger.

only the small handed people know what i'm talking about.

Anyone with sub 7.5" hands please reply and let me know what you can no-set, hand length and what you can close with a set. thanks

[OldGuy]

I don't think anyone will argue that a larger handed guy has better leverages with a no set.  They do, period.  The argument is people whine all the time about their hands being too small to no set a 3, but they can no set a T,1, 2, and BBSM.  But their hands are just to small for a #3.  A larger hand is an advantage in no set, but that's not an excuse to say I can't do this because my hands are too small.

Say somone can deadlift 500lbs, long legs, long trunk, short arms = long pull.  The only reason they can't deadlift 550 because I have bad leverages??  Bullshit, work hard and get stronger.

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Exactly! Some have even said that while a large hand is an advantage in setting a gripper, it may be a disadvantage in closing it. I my case I can no set any grippers up to a BB GE and sweep it down to handles parallel, but I am weak after that point. Life is not fair so just get on with it instead of always complaining and trying to make things even. In any case setting a gripper way beyond that which is necessary to wrap all the fingers around the handles is a joke. Setting to parallel means the handles are only about 1/2'' from closing. Set it until you have your fingers positioned and close it from there.

[jad]

Exactly! Some have even said that while a large hand is an advantage in setting a gripper, it may be a disadvantage in closing it. I my case I can no set any grippers up to a BB GE and sweep it down to handles parallel, but I am weak after that point. Life is not fair so just get on with it instead of always complaining and trying to make things even.   In any case setting a gripper way beyond that which is necessary to wrap all the fingers around the handles is a joke. Setting to parallel means the handles are only about 1/2'' from closing. Set it until you have your fingers positioned and close it from there.

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I suppose it depends on the gripper but my #4 set to just a shade outside of parallel in the choker it is just a hair over 1 inch. I guess people have different definitions of wrapping thier fingers all around the handles as well. If a small handed man wraps his fingers around the gripper with a set, the same amount as a large handed man does with no set, then I don't see what the problem is.

Edited December 10, 2004 by jad

[pdoire]

I had a #1 IM that was double filed on both sides more than 9/16 total,

it used to belong to Shrug..that is probably why the overfiling is there.

What I found with my 8 1/4 hands is that when I closed it my fingers would

actually hit the palm of my hand before the gripper handles wanted to touch.

This is a disadvantage to having larger hands ( if mine are in that category )

...I have since traded it for one that is not filed.

So they may help in the sweep...but not necassarily in the close.

[Scott Styles]

You bring up an interesting point OldGuy. Note that I said optimal hand size in my posts. I fully believe a hand can be too big to get great leverage on a gripper.

I started a new thread querying set vs. no set strength:

http://www.gripboard.com/index.php?showtopic=11570

Edited December 10, 2004 by Scott Styles

[Bearcat 74]

no more on this arguement.

its easy for people with hand bigger than 7" to say its strength, not hand size.

thats like a 7 foot tall guy telling a 5 1/2 foot guy its easy to dunk, you just have to get stronger.

only the small handed people know what i'm talking about.

Anyone with sub 7.5" hands please reply and let me know what you can no-set, hand length and what you can close with a set. thanks

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Ok, then you tell us big handed people why you can close the T-1-2 no set and can't close the #3. Given that the spreads are near equal, what is the reason you can't shut it. Leverage is bad, yes, but would you not be at basically the same leverage point no setting the other grippers? A no set is a no set. Maybe I am just being to simple, if you can't do something, get stronger. When it comes to lifting, moving, squeezing, bending, that seems to be my rule.

I will also add that to get good at no sets, you have to work no sets. Just because you can set and close something at parallel doesn't mean you are strong no set. They are two different animals.

[Darco]

Kids, let's not fight...why no set when you can flog !

My hands are a needle shy of 7", I can set close a HG300, no set a #2 for a rep or set close it for a bakers dozen.

The biggest difference right now is a RB180 with a 3" spread that I can close with a set but not get past parallel with a no-set. FUN !

Edited December 10, 2004 by Darco

[twig]

Ok, then you tell us big handed people why you can close the T-1-2 no set and can't close the #3.  Given that the spreads are near equal, what is the reason you can't shut it.  Leverage is bad, yes, but would you not be at basically the same leverage point no setting the other grippers?  A no set is a no set.  Maybe I am just being to simple, if you can't do something, get stronger.  When it comes to lifting, moving, squeezing, bending, that seems to be my rule.

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I agree, although my #3 is spread a full 1/2 inch wider than my other grippers, which makes a difference, but I just worked on no setting it until it got to the point when I can get the first half inch taken up, now it's no different to no setting the other grippers, I think if you can get even the tip of one finger round the handle, you can no set it, you just need to work at it.

P.s. plate curls seem helpful for strengthening the sweep.

[amaury]

Hehe one of the gripboard favorite theme: handsize ! I'm sure people not involved in grip strength would find our discussions on this subject pretty comical... At best... Most probably ridiculous...

If a lift does not suit your body type (whether it be the squat, the deadlift or a no set close on a gripper) you're not obliged to practice it !

[ishred]

Ok, then you tell us big handed people why you can close the T-1-2 no set and can't close the #3.  Given that the spreads are near equal, what is the reason you can't shut it.  Leverage is bad, yes, but would you not be at basically the same leverage point no setting the other grippers?  A no set is a no set.  Maybe I am just being to simple, if you can't do something, get stronger.  When it comes to lifting, moving, squeezing, bending, that seems to be my rule.

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I agree, although my #3 is spread a full 1/2 inch wider than my other grippers, which makes a difference, but I just worked on no setting it until it got to the point when I can get the first half inch taken up, now it's no different to no setting the other grippers, I think if you can get even the tip of one finger round the handle, you can no set it, you just need to work at it.

P.s. plate curls seem helpful for strengthening the sweep.

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i can't get the tip of one finger around the handle...i have to rely on friction to be able to start getting my fingers around.

Like i said, if i, or anyone with 7" hands could no set a 3, they would have the strongest crush in the world imho.

my whole point about hand size is that us small handed people have a MUCH harder time with things than people with larger hands. In fact, i was just comparing my no-set style to scott's since he posted a video.

[Sean Dockery]

Ishred, I thought you might find this interesting.

Last night my wife was doing her monthly squeezes on grippers, and I suggested to her that she use the set. She responded, "I don't really need to set it". Her hands are 7 1/8".

[Bill Piche]

I agree, if you can't do a no-set #3, you need to get stronger -- period. However, I will still say that given two guys of equal strength, the guy with a 8" hand compared to a guy with a 7" hand will probably do better from an overall result standpoint in performing no sets. Especially if you are talking a gripper width of say 3" or over.

[ishred]

Ishred, I thought you might find this interesting.

Last night my wife was doing her monthly squeezes on grippers, and I suggested to her that she use the set.  She responded, "I don't really need to set it".  Her hands are 7 1/8".

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that's great sean...but i would think that my hands are much thicker than hers. I'm sure she can get at least 2 fingers around the handle, while i can't even get 1.

[Bearcat 74]

So now hand thickness is another reason for not being able to no set. How does having thick hands hinder you from no setting?

[ishred]

So now hand thickness is another reason for not being able to no set.  How does having thick hands hinder you from no setting?

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holy crap......your like following me

all i sad was that I cannot get any fingers around the handle while attempting to no-set with the gripper in the proper position.

It may be different for you, but you dont have to question each of my posts.

[Sonny]

When I do a no set close my technique differs from set closes in that my thumb is much more involved with a no set close. I primarily use my fingers for the first portion of the close and as the gripper reaches parallel I sort of roll the pad of my thumb towards my fingers thus completing the close.

[jad]

When I do a no set close my technique differs from set closes in that my thumb is much more involved with a no set close. I primarily use my fingers for the first portion of the close and as the gripper reaches parallel I sort of roll the pad of my thumb towards my fingers thus completing the close.

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Before learning the KTA set, I did pretty much the same thing. I kept reading about dynamic thumb work and took that to mean that you should move your thumb. So I would pull my thumb back and to the side at the same time, set the gripper in the fold of my hand, get my fingers wrapped, then explode my thumb downward toward my pinkie while closing. Once I practiced it a couple of times it got me past that last 1/8" on my #3 with ease. I switched workouts at the time too so I guess that could've been it as well, but I could definetly tell a difference by rolling the thumb.

[Scott Styles]

I tried holding the gripper in position with my bottom two fingers while placing the first two. If anything I had a harder time holding it in place.

[bencrush]

A tip that might sound too simplistic to some people is to do many, many reps with the table no set to get good at it. I don't consider myself to be very strong, but I can no set close almost anything that I can set close. I've done thousands of TNS reps and feel very comfortable now using it. The only time recently that I've been able to set close something harder than my no set has been when I put a GM in a hose clamp set at one inch. Otherwise I've practiced the TNS so much (it's all I do) that it's easier and stronger for me now that way. No tricks, no sleight of hand. And before the question is asked, NO I'm not suggesting that set closes are either of the above. They are what they are. I am impressed with those that can set close a heavy gripper.

I consider TNS closes to be the grip equivalent of "RAW" powerlifts. And set closes to be the equivalent to equipped lifts. Both are impressive. Both are legit. Different rules and they suit different people to differing degrees.

I second the opinion that a hand can be too large to effectively exert its strength against a gripper. There is a large man that I let try my GM recently. Very large man. 440+ pounds. 6'4"+ or so. Almost acromegalic in appearance. Not all muscle, but still packing quite a bit. His hands are HUGE! I would guess 9" or very close to it. And THICK! Like sausage fingers. He shook my hand and absolutely dwarfed my hand. Wrists are so big that only leg shackles will fit on them. He picked up my GM, TNS, which is how over 90% of inmates and "normal" people pick up a gripper to give it a squeeze. And mashed it down in an instant to parallel...but no more. His hand appeared to fold over onto itself. He had no leverage to speak of at that point.

Moral of the story? I didn't for an instant think that I was stronger than this man who might be able to crush the life out of me, just because he couldn't close a gripper that was thoroughly unsuited to his hand structure. The same holds true, in my opinion, for those with smaller (7.5" or less) hands. In reality they might be stronger than me. But they're unable to demonstrate it due to the fault of the TEST itself. Set us side by side with a dyno and they may pull more than me. Who's stronger? Depends on which test you use.

[Scott Styles]

Bencrush, do you think that if you added in some set specialization into your workouts that they would go back up to be better than your no-set?

What suprised me about all this analysis is that hand size didn't matter that much, 10-15% at most. And someone with a small hand who trains no-set has a good chance of doing better than someone with a large hand who doesn't train no-set.

[Sean Dockery]

What suprised me about all this analysis is that hand size didn't matter that much, 10-15% at most.  And someone with a small hand who trains no-set has a good chance of doing better than someone with a large hand who doesn't train no-set.

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Whatever you do don't tell ishred about this...it'll ruin his day....

[Bearcat 74]

What suprised me about all this analysis is that hand size didn't matter that much, 10-15% at most.  And someone with a small hand who trains no-set has a good chance of doing better than someone with a large hand who doesn't train no-set.

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Whatever you do don't tell ishred about this...it'll ruin his day....

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didn't ruin my day....

this whole topic seemed to make a bunch of babies cry though.

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This topic seemed to make babies cry? The only baby I have seen on this whole hand size thread is you. You have whined and bitched about how small you hands are on what 3 different threads? You can't do this you can't do that. Show me where someone else has complained, one of these babies. Maybe the babies you speak of are the ones who wish these threads would go away. The way I see it people can do two things, bitch about their hand size, or shut up and train to make themselves stronger. You seem to be in the first catagory listed. That used to be the good thing about this board. This used to be one of the best training boards on the net. Everyday it finds someone else who posts to simply see themselves post or a new whiner. I see less and less of the "oldtimers" who know what it's like to go to work and get stuff done, less of the people that I respect for their thoughts and views. New blood is good, there are people who have contirbuted greatly to this board, I have made new friends and gotten some good ideas from them. But the quality info that used to be kicked about seems to be fading.

Enough of a rant, I have to go train..............

[Sean Dockery]

I'm with Heath